Struggling with a friend's decision to pursue surrogacy overseas

[idontknowhowtodreamyourdreams]

I am feeling so angry and upset about a situation I have found myself in with a dear friend who I have known since we were at primary school (now 40s).

A caveat from me - have 3 dc of my own and don’t pretend to understand how it feels to v much want to be a parent and be unable to be one.

My friend (gay, male) asked me about 4 or 5 years ago if I would be a surrogate for him and his husband. For all kinds of reasons, it was a firm and immediate no from me. Tbh it was unexpected and I felt inwardly horrified. It would not have been right for me personally and I have a whole range of ethical issues re surrogacy in any event. No reservations about my friend’s ability to parent, he would be great.

My “no” really impacted our friendship. He was upset and hurt and I felt it has taken us a long time to recover the friendship. I explained why I said no at the time. He struggled to understand and still does, there has been a lot of anger on both our sides over this. He is in the midst of going through the process to be considered for adoption. I thought he was and his husband were committed to this - they would be great parents.

Seemingly out of nowhere he told me a few days ago about plans to go overseas and give surrogacy “a whirl”. Cyprus, I think, but also considering Albania.

I know they can do what they think is right for them. But I am so upset by this decision- to go overseas and pay someone desperate for the cash for a child, the power dynamics, the transactional nature. The whole “I am entitled to this” mindset.

It is not my business. But I don’t think I can get my head around it.

I just need somewhere to vent.

Seriously uncalled for OP.

I don't think what you quoted was flippant at all.

Regardless of how much someone might want something, it doesn't make it ok to harm other people (a woman and a baby) to get it.

For example I know some single older women who have never been married and would have liked to. They feel a lot of very real sadness and regret and longing. But they wouldn't buy a husband.

Tbh i think youre unreasonable, its non of your business.

Not all surrogates are vulnerable but I agree with your concerns.

That said your involvement ended at no. And atm your concerns are all hypothetical- what if the woman is a commodity - what if the give it a whirl terminology reflects a casual attitude

He and his husband dont casually want a family, they asked you and are also exploring adoption. And considering you say youve been close for years and a support to each other you seem quick to judge and you dont have to agree with all his decisions

Same. It's not flippancy at all - I'm with the OP. Babies (and women's bodies) are not commodities to be purchased, regardless of how much you want one. I've been through fertility treatment and know how difficult it is - but at no point did I ever think to buy a human with all the ethical issues surrounding that. That's not flippancy - that's morality and having respect for the lives of others. The sooner the practice is outlawed the better.

The OP has acknowledged her privilege of having children. What else do you want her to do? Do you think being unable to have children is the single worst thing that can happen to people in life?

Where did I agree with surrogacy? I made it clear I don’t. Her friend sounds like an entitled arse. What I was objecting to as being flippant was someone who has 3 children commenting on the unique pain of infertility when she has no idea. I don’t know what she has been through in her life but I know it’s not infertility.

I’m not saying it is. But I am saying it’s something that is unique and people who haven’t been through it don’t understand.

Her friend is not infertile.

Gosh you are generous in your understanding. The friendship would be over when he got upset by being told no. It's such a gross and entitled reaction. I could never get over it.

I sincerely hope he is not successful in this grotesque pursuit. He has no right to a child and no right to use any woman's body as an incubator. Awful.

One thing I did not understand about surrogacy is that usually it is a different woman's egg to the carrier. So the surrogate does not share DNA with the baby. I have no idea what that feels like as usually it is the DNA and 9 months of pregnancy that creates such a special bond.

Did the couple want you to donate your egg and be a surrogate? That is a lot to ask of someone imo.

Her "friend" tried to pressure her into being his surrogate. He is now exploring surrogacy in Cyprus and Albania. How many women in those two countries are so bored with their second homes and BMWs that they have decided to become surrogate mothers, you think? Never mind the trauma the baby will suffer from being separated from their mother.

From the sound of it, her "friend" is not just exploring adoption, but actually in the process (please correct me if I am wrong). No, he doesn't just casually want a family, he is willing to exert emotional pressure, break adoption agency rules and treat poor women and babies as commodities. There is a difference between being judgemental and having a moral compass.

That's not strictly true - it depends on the type of surrogacy. It can be a donor egg, the surrogate's own egg or the intended mother's egg. In this case, it would be 1 or 2, which involves the use of a woman's body for their own purposes.

Because he has no respect at all for women and doesn't believe in bodily autonomy, for a start

@Mszeebop yes, it would have been my egg and my friend’s sperm. Not a donor egg.

@onlytherain this is correct. He and his DH are not just exploring or thinking about adoption, they are in the process. Started about 4 months ago.

The OPs friend has always been gay though and has had over 20 adult years to contemplate how he may become a parent. It’s not a case of unknown infertility leading to desperation.

it strikes me that he perhaps always assumed OP would be a surrogate for him, and perhaps that’s why he was so angry when she said no.

Entitled prick.

Your 'friend' is fucking deluded to have suggested this. He lacks empathy and any grip on what family actually means and the love, sacrifice and commitment involved of being a parent. Disgusting.

@siomnascattoy this amused me 🤣. Yes, entitled prick.

Am due to meet with him this coming weekend so I plan to have a chat about where this is going and will also want to be honest about my views.

So he wanted you to have your own child with him and just hand it over. Your child. Like he was asking for a pen.
He's a fucking monster.

Bloody hell. Surely this friendship is over regardless? It sounds as if he doesn't quite have a grip on the reality of life, I'm really shocked that he asked you to give him your baby.

This sounds hard OP!

I've always felt conflicted with my feelings about surrogacy and I still do. Money makes it much more complicated and vulnerable to exploitation, but at the same time, some women genuinely want to be surrogates.

I am also biased as I am in the middle of infertility.

There is a gay couple online who are currently petitioning for a quicker post-birth process for the receiving couple and for there to be "less hoops to jump through" and that filled me with dread when I read it to be honest.

Adoption needs to be pursued with the best interests of the child and "giving surrogacy abroad a whirl" in the meantime is just bloody wrong!

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cn4p9kde0zyo

This is the link to the petition I was talking about.

@Bearssaidhearegenerallyverywelldressed thanks for sharing this. Am sorry to hear you are going through infertility currently and I really hope it all works out for you!

Some women may want to be surrogates, but that's a bit like saying some women want to be sex workers - it's all part of the same industry and it's hard to work out who is who. But it all involves inequalities and often behind the scenes coercion.

Most people use agencies to find surrogates. These agencies are making money off these women. The commissioning parents pay a lot of money to the agencies but the surrogates only see a fraction of it.

So I'm not convinced you can section some surrogacy off as "ethical", especially it all involves removing a baby from its mother and denying her parental responsibility.