Struggling with a friend's decision to pursue surrogacy overseas

[idontknowhowtodreamyourdreams]

I am feeling so angry and upset about a situation I have found myself in with a dear friend who I have known since we were at primary school (now 40s).

A caveat from me - have 3 dc of my own and don’t pretend to understand how it feels to v much want to be a parent and be unable to be one.

My friend (gay, male) asked me about 4 or 5 years ago if I would be a surrogate for him and his husband. For all kinds of reasons, it was a firm and immediate no from me. Tbh it was unexpected and I felt inwardly horrified. It would not have been right for me personally and I have a whole range of ethical issues re surrogacy in any event. No reservations about my friend’s ability to parent, he would be great.

My “no” really impacted our friendship. He was upset and hurt and I felt it has taken us a long time to recover the friendship. I explained why I said no at the time. He struggled to understand and still does, there has been a lot of anger on both our sides over this. He is in the midst of going through the process to be considered for adoption. I thought he was and his husband were committed to this - they would be great parents.

Seemingly out of nowhere he told me a few days ago about plans to go overseas and give surrogacy “a whirl”. Cyprus, I think, but also considering Albania.

I know they can do what they think is right for them. But I am so upset by this decision- to go overseas and pay someone desperate for the cash for a child, the power dynamics, the transactional nature. The whole “I am entitled to this” mindset.

It is not my business. But I don’t think I can get my head around it.

I just need somewhere to vent.

I'm not surprised at the way you feel.
Give it a whirl!
Children and their mother's are not commodities

I'd be angry too. It's a very entitled attitude.

I'd have disappeared when he got upset about you not being willing to spend 9 months being pregnant then hand over your newborn. Absolutely gob smacked.

I think because we have known each other forever, including through v difficult times on both sides, he assumed I would at least give it consideration and discuss with my partner! I didn’t need to discuss it with anyone. An immediate no.

I get how hurt he was and is, but that is not an excuse for the anger.

I'm not surprised that you feel this way. Procuring another human is (rightly) illegal in many countries, and the idea that you can buy a baby and remove it from its mother is appalling. Sadly, many men don't understand that - their wants come before the rights of any woman or child. I'm not sure I could continue a friendship with someone who would do that tbh.

YANBU to feel this way. I don’t believe in surrogacy in poor countries either. Hos language around it is outrageous.

However, there is a definite discomfort in the UK at the moment with male couples adopting and it must be difficult if you feel that you want to be a parent but you can’t.

He got upset when you wouldn't bear a child for him? What an entitled, narcissistic piece of s*.

He obviously sees pregnancy, dna, buying eggs, using a woman to carry a baby as some kind of minor detail.

I'm not surprised you are angry.

I am against all surrogacy. I couldn't have children but I adopted. Imo dna matters. It is an absolute tragedy that my daughters didn't get to grow up with their birth family - in their case there were serious reasons why this wasn't possible, but in surrogacy it's just a whim. And you can bet the child will be expected to accept it and be grateful.

There is nothing you can do of course. You may even feel you need to stay around to check that the child is ok x

Sorry HE was hurt that you wouldn't give him the use of YOUR body because...erm he wanted it?

That would be the end for me.

Now he wants to use another vulnerable woman's body & indulge in a spot of people trafficking. His language 'give it a whril' so flippant, so cold, , so entitled.

Nobody is owed a baby , human beings are not commodities to be bought & dold.

Get over your upset & find your revulsion

He got angry because you wouldn't make a baby for him? I would not be friends with an entitled cunt like that!

I will add, he was angry and is now going abroad to buy one from a poor woman. Disgusting man.
This new podcast on the BBC is a fair, balanced and utterly horrifying. They discuss Cyprus extensively. https://www.bbc.co.uk/sounds/series/m002yvrf

I think you should let his adoption agency know about this,it's awful.

I have a similar friend dynamic, and when I was young (before I had children) I said I would do this for them. Once I'd actually had children myself, I realised the massive toll that pregnancy takes on your body and psyche as a woman.

I'm so, so glad that he never asked because I totally feel it would have been a chasm in our relationship in the way it has for you.

I would also feel the way you do about surrogacy. There is a lot of hatred in gay circles about women and women's bodies, and I would feel that this is behind such a decision being taken so lightly. And I would take that personally too.

So, totally get where you are coming from OP. But I sort of get where they are coming from too. The media messages around surrogacy are very positive, and unless you have lived through pregnancy and bearing a child you can't understand what it all means. xxx

While I don't think this is the answer, I do feel gay men who want to be parents can't win at the moment. The recent rhetoric against gay male adoption has been harmful.

A man who is willing to use your body, gamble with your health, and expect you to carry all the physical risks simply because he wants a baby is not your friend.

A “friend” who couldnt understand why you might not be willing to put your health and well-being at risk for him and was angry as a result is not a friend.

I disagree that it isn’t your business. He’s going to exploit a poor woman and buy a baby. That is everyone’s business.

I would not want to be friends with somebody who expected me to carry a baby for 9 months and then give it up, then actually got angry with me when I said no. He sounds horrible and entitled.

This is really hard. I have a dear friend who is gay but I know the friendship would not survive if he did this. It's fine to hold your line. Perhaps you saying something will help him reconsider, perhaps not but I would say it anyway. I also think there should be better checks, supervision and ongoing support for everyone who adopts, not just gay men. A diversity push has meant that some people are scared to speak up. We should always want what's best for the child, not pandering to an adult's needs or wants.

@tonyhawks23 yes, it is terrible that they are basically running the two processes in parallel. It makes me v uncomfortable and I am minded to raise it with the agency.

Thank you @HushTheNoise I am gearing up to have what is going to be a difficult conversation with him. I do feel this has shown a different side to him and not one I had hoped to see. I feel extremely let down by his views on it all tbh.

@HotGrapefruit this is an interesting perspective in that I see that if one went by the sanitised versions of surrogacy one sees on instagram etc then maybe, without any direct experience of child birth and pregnancy etc, it might be possible to conclude that it was ok ….. maybe. But it is a deluded position when money is changing hands!

Oh, for sure. But I don’t think surrogacy is the answer.

This male "friend" of yours got angry when you wouldn't give him the use of your body, putting yourself at great physical (and emotional) risk. And just because he really really wants it. Not a kidney donation to save his life, no, just because he wants it.

I really see no difference in a male friend getting angry if you don't want to have sex with him. Just because he really really wants it.

He is vile and no true friend. I just hope to goodness he doesn't go through with it. And whatever happens, that he doesn't get a daughter.

This is my fear too @Kingdomofsleep . It is just gut wrenching to find myself hoping that he doesn’t end up with a daughter, but that is where I am at currently.

I would be sickened that he reacted with sulking anger because you wouldn’t carry his child when he snapped his fingers. Wow.

This is not a good guy. This is an entitled twat. He doesn’t sound like someone who’d be a good parent.

YANBU.

I don’t agree with surrogacy, but you can’t say for certain it would be someone desperate for money. Some woman become surrogates because they want to help someone have a child