Struggling with a friend's decision to pursue surrogacy overseas

[idontknowhowtodreamyourdreams]

I am feeling so angry and upset about a situation I have found myself in with a dear friend who I have known since we were at primary school (now 40s).

A caveat from me - have 3 dc of my own and don’t pretend to understand how it feels to v much want to be a parent and be unable to be one.

My friend (gay, male) asked me about 4 or 5 years ago if I would be a surrogate for him and his husband. For all kinds of reasons, it was a firm and immediate no from me. Tbh it was unexpected and I felt inwardly horrified. It would not have been right for me personally and I have a whole range of ethical issues re surrogacy in any event. No reservations about my friend’s ability to parent, he would be great.

My “no” really impacted our friendship. He was upset and hurt and I felt it has taken us a long time to recover the friendship. I explained why I said no at the time. He struggled to understand and still does, there has been a lot of anger on both our sides over this. He is in the midst of going through the process to be considered for adoption. I thought he was and his husband were committed to this - they would be great parents.

Seemingly out of nowhere he told me a few days ago about plans to go overseas and give surrogacy “a whirl”. Cyprus, I think, but also considering Albania.

I know they can do what they think is right for them. But I am so upset by this decision- to go overseas and pay someone desperate for the cash for a child, the power dynamics, the transactional nature. The whole “I am entitled to this” mindset.

It is not my business. But I don’t think I can get my head around it.

I just need somewhere to vent.

What horrible men wanting what women can have 😂😂😂 if their paying the same rates for insurance they should be able to use it for fertility treatment just as any woman can I thought you feminists wanted equality? Well guess what it works both ways 💕

I think Sasha’s point is that the OP is jumping the gun by telling the agency.

First because her friend hasn’t actually engaged in the surrogacy process yet.

And secondly, because should he decide to go that route, he might be the one informing the adoption agency himself and removing themselves from the adoption process.

The thing is, he is in the adoption process. Surrogacy shouldn't be on the radar at all.

This reminds me of the chap on MAFSAus this year who announced he was about to be a dad to 2 youngsters, one through surrogacy and one through adoption.
I thought he was really selfish, just out to get a partner and children all at once, no consideration for the other humans involved at all.

Fertility treatment on ones own body to make any bits of your anatomy that aren't working right work better shoukd be equal for both sexes.

Neither men nor women should have the right to purchase amother human being, to purchase the power to make a poor vulnerable woman destroy her physical and mental health for their benefit. That's not a "fertility treatment" it's a form of slavery. In a some cases the surrogate doesn't even get to keep the money as she's under the control of someone else using her body for profit.

This is the antithesis of equality of the sexes. Only one half of the population is capable of conceiving and bearing a child, and the law makes it possible for this ability to be used and exploited and controlled by others rather than creating freedom and liberation. Patriarchy in action.

An elderly friend of my mothers was telling us about her sons friends gay couple senior politically who sourced a baby from South America. She seemed quite surprised when I didn’t join in the gushing about it.

I actually think it’s important to calmly state your objections to fight the normalisation of surrogacy. Worried me that men close to power do this so surely they will want to legislate for it.

I wouldn’t tell the agency. I think informing on someone who’s had a conversation with you is something of an extreme reaction. Their processes should be good enough. Nobody really knows what taking a baby on is like and not being perfect is ok. He may not be very far along with the process and could end up self excluding.

However, the friendship is over. He saw you for a period of time as a route to what he wanted, with no consideration for you, and reacted angrily when you demonstrated you were a real person. That’s not a friend.

I also think surrogacy is wrong so wouldn’t be interested in celebrating with him if he were successful.

i would feel the same as you. Whatever your view on surrogacy overall, he should have accepted your ‘no’ with grace, it’s a ridiculously big ask. I wouldn’t have even continued rhe friendship since then TBH, with his attitude

I’d really have difficulty with this too. Unfortunately some men (too many) only really see women as creatures which are there to provide services to them. If you say no, it simply doesn’t compute - they are confused and angry, after all your role as a woman is to fall in with what they want without question.
You were completely within your rights to refuse his request - it is a huge ask of anyone. But his petulant reaction shows that he doesn’t understand why you wouldn’t immediately agree to do what he wants. I’m not sure I’d be able to get past that.

The friendship is over and his reaction to you refusing to be a surrogate is shameful.

I object to surrogacy but I think informing the adoption agency on the basis of a conversation is an absolutely unhinged and cruel thing to do.

To be honest his reaction when you said no says a lot about the kind of man he is. He actually expected you to just say yes and take all that risk and emotional and physical burden? I probably would have stepped back from the friendship at that point. He has no idea what it takes to carry and birth a child and no respect for women and their bodies.

going overseas now for surrogacy is also something I don’t support and would struggle to maintain the friendship given our moral compasses seem to have turned polar opposite in later life.

thats just the way things are sometimes. But he sounds very anti-woman and male entitled, I’m not sure this friendship benefits you at all.

Sums up male entitlement perfectly, doesn’t it really - give us your womb or else I’m going to sulk and throw a tantrum and cast you out despite you being my friend for decades. Absolutely batshit. I can’t believe you’re still friends with him, to be honest.

I would distance myself but I wouldn’t interfere in the adoption process as you have no doubts about him being a good parent.

The main motivator is the behaviour of this man when Op declined the request to be a surrogate for them. His opinion of women’s bodily autonomy and his own entitlement, reflect patriarchy at its worst.

That type of man, simply shouldn’t be a parent. His sexuality needn’t be considered.

And yes. Women should have opinions about this. To prevent the ongoing abuse of women.

The fact you don’t care about that, and would rather allow this man to carry on regardless procuring babies from anywhere he can, says all we need to know about you too.

They are travelling to another country. Do you honestly think there’s no one in that country who wouldn’t love the gift of a baby? But they won’t pay the way first world people do.

I also chose not to seek to be come a foster carer when we were turned down for adoption.

Fostering is nothing like being a parent or adopting a child. It is certainly not the answer for infertility.

It's about the children, not the adults and should never be touted as an alternative method of becoming a parent - even social services and adoption agencies don't suggest it because they aren't comparable.

How will the agency know about his anger if they don't speak to people like OP?

The agency will ask for names of people to get references from. This man won't nominate OP, clearly, yet OP has very important information to give about his attitude to her, his anger, his behaviour and his lies.

He isn't going to tell them he is looking into surrogacy, because that will end the afoption process.

Child safeguarding is everyone's problem.

Imagine saying nothing then finding out later that something terrible happens. I certainly couldn't hold that guilt.

Why will he not adopt from abroad rather than surrogacy?

I think this has already been mentioned but he shouldn't be trying to conceive whilst going through the adoption process and the agency needs to know that he isn't fully committed to an adopted child and all of the trauma that that entails. The friendship would have ended for me when he was upset with me for not considering surrogacy. I couldn't be friends with someone who is going abroad to do this.

And surrogacy is totally about the parents, not the children!

If @idontknowhowtodreamyourdreams really wanted to do something good for/with DC, then he could foster, and help children.

I know someone who went to North Cyprus for a surrogate child. It's not just a poorer country, the agencies are located there precisely because there is no meaningful regulation of them. The woman who gave birth was trafficked there from another country in eastern Europe. The agency encouraged the couple to lie on the birth certificate and cover up the fact it was a surrogate birth. The child was then trafficked from Cyprus to the UK. It is wrong on so many levels.

Needless to say, this person is no longer my friend.

So long as OP only tells them what she knows to be true then surely the agency is best placed to know whether this is significant or not? If it's irrelevant because of the stage they're at with either process then they can just disregard it.

It's illegal in many too.

For good reason. It's child trafficking. Making it legal doesn't make it better. It is an abhorrent thing to do to a woman and baby.

To be clear - he is in the process of selecting a surrogacy clinic but hasn’t actually signed up yet. I don’t think I would want to tell the agency at this point but I think he should tell them now and say he wants to halt the adoption process for the time being. I am going to tell him this.

As and when he and his DH sign up, I think I would inform them.

It has massively changed my view of him.

I don’t think my position is homophobic. I would have exactly the same feelings if they were a straight couple.

And yes, of course I do know I am very privileged to have had 3 kids. I don’t know what it’s like to desperately want that and be unable to have it. But I do know what it’s like to have to accept loss and grief in life and desperately want things to be otherwise; I just think life involves accepting that we can’t always have what we want.

@TheRealMagic like safeguarding - report what you know and let the relevant authority decide what to do with that information.

At this point, I think my friend should voluntarily halt the adoption process. We are due to meet next week but I plan to speak with him before then.

This is been so very useful in terms of clarifying my thinking.

@MrsSquirrel that is absolutely horrific.