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Feminism: chat

Amber Heard&Johnny Depp post verdict

587 replies

Miscfeminista · 05/06/2022 22:58

Continuation of previous thread:

www.mumsnet.com/talk/feminism/4560089-amber-heardjohnny-depp-verdict?page=1

and the one before(during trial):

www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4552076-amber-heardjohnny-depp-trial?page=36&reply=117586863

Also, refresher on DV:

www.womensaid.org.uk/information-support/what-is-domestic-abuse/recognising-domestic-abuse/

OP posts:
TiddyTidTwo · 13/06/2022 18:51

To be concerned that the Depp/Heard trial has put off genuine DV victims from coming forward? http://www.mumsnet.com/Talk/amiibeingunreasonable/4565599-to-be-concerned-that-the-deppheard-trial-has-put-off-genuine-dv-victims-from-coming-forward

carolineshaw · 13/06/2022 23:06

TiddyTidTwo · Today 18:50

@carolineshaw there's an AIBU thread going on this. Perhaps we should all congregate there to keep it on one thread as it's moving more than this one x

Good idea. This one has obviously run out of steam.

Miscfeminista · 14/06/2022 23:14

Absolutley hate how she has to justify and apologise when proly she feels like saying f that scumbag(rightly so). I would not be able to be as composed..or maybe I would after all that time of being vilified Idk. All I know is that there was nothing that angered me more than people justifying my abuser, it completely sets me off and then of course they call me stupid crazy and whatnot. Basically she has no choice, she has to play the coy victim part despite having every right to be enraged and disgusted by this all.

OP posts:
Onthedunes · 15/06/2022 01:33

Absolutley hate how she has to justify and apologise when proly she feels like saying f that scumbag(rightly so)

She won't be thinking like this though, a narcissistic abuser thinks differently.

She's not angry at Johnny, she's angry at the narrative not being her narrative. Her only anger at Johnny is that she was stopped from controlling him and her future.

The end game is all important to narcissists but if they have to change direction they will and they will already have differrent options put in place for any situation that can't be controlled.
She will have many options, that's why you will not see Amber become so depressed she can't leave the house or become ill with insecurity.

These people do not feel shame as normal people do, she will continue to fight, she is formidably strong and insults will bounce off her.

She sees her life as a story with her in the starring role, the people who disagree with Amber will just be viewed as idiots by her.

You are making the mistake that she has emotions that are within a normal range, she doesn't, the emotions you see are learnt from observing others and mirroring them.

Amber acts how she thinks others should act, unfortunately there are not many examples for Amber to emulate in these particular circumstances.

Miscfeminista · 15/06/2022 01:53

Again I been called emotioneless, selfish, ruthless whatnot. I can pull the”ice queen”stuff, that’s what you learn when you been denigrated for a long, long time. I would always get surprised it works to be honest because you always think that no matter how much you have practiced being stoic that people must feel the pain you do anyway-they don’t, they see what you give them if you try hard enough. I have said I don’t understand or am surprised at her not being angry more for the effect, I understand perfectly she has no choice to display anger in a situation where anything you say or do is taken as a proof of your guilt regardless. We can’t read people’s minds and we certainly can’t diagnose them online. She will look guilty no matter what she says at this point becasue JD was the accuser in the public eye simply because he filed lawsuit first

OP posts:
Onthedunes · 15/06/2022 02:12

I don't care about the trial, what I find fascinating is Amber.

Obviously I don't think Johnny shoud have been used to recompence Amber for her losses but the outcome is what it is. The trial is just Amber plate spinning, collateral damage from her pushing against a powerful man, a man that had the capability and money not just to lie down and die.

She never wanted that relationship to end but it wasn't beacause of love, the relationship was useful.

She will continue to use others and extract what she needs.

Miscfeminista · 15/06/2022 04:39

Well I’m coming from almost opposite pov-I really don’t care about Amber as such. What has been fascinating to me(let me throw on the Russell Brand and his woke beads for a second)is how people tend to react to this whole thing. As much as I have an inclination to aversion toward stereotypical blonde bs(probably like most women since it’s used as some sort of stick to beat us with and inflict jealosuy, feelings of inadequacy whatever), I still see the person beneath it, good and ugly. It’s called feeling for someone, empathy, not letting things like femininity prevent us for seeing the human beneath it-it is not projection and victimising women to do so. Our personal experiences were supposed to make it easier for us to see that we aren’t all so different after all when it comes to being abused by men, no matter how much stories seemingly differ. If some women fail to do so it’s because they probably haven’t been allowed to adress their trauma and what was done to them as it was or they still think it’s all about individuals and somehow their abuse story makes them unique-to the point they can discredit someone because hey, they got validated for certain behaviour and trauma therefore others who stray from those expectations are not the real thing. It’s so easy to do this and to fall in trap of ending up blaming women for what was done to them because the perpetrator is not available/won’t answer and won’t be held accountable. Then we get irritated and think oh if only she left and stopped this nonsense, if only she this if only she that. Of course that’s the most logical course of thinking when our whole lives we never get to question our fathers, brothers, partners and boy friends, they are simply out of equation when it comes to asking for receipt.

“To project”as some would say or simply to observe from experience: the more you justify yourself, the more people treat you as guilty regardless if you are guilty or not. Men know this and that’s why they’re mostly sneaking around and avoiding too many questions. Notice how Johnny never once felt to justify but instead gave excuses like for example when he slapped her because of tattoos-when asked about it he has not denied it or even tried to explain the event. He went to rant on about how his body or tattoos are his art bla bla bla how he takes it seriously. His whole attitude;”You’re damn right I slapped her, you don’t get to mock my shit”. There was no”I was out of myself/drugged/got it wrong”or whatever the typical justification would be when caught. Just a rant about importance of his tattoos.

Re her being a user: I love this shit being thrown at women as ultimate flaw. People are opportunistic by nature, which doesn’t necessarily mean it’s ultimately immoral or even bad intentioned, it’s just how relationships work. You give some you take some. Sure she got benefits of being with someone rich but also no matter the money I wouldn’t put up with a guy who vomits all over himself and empties his bowels while passed out. Wow what”an opportunity”. Ffs.

But if you must call her”horrible”for something then I would judge her to pay”a surrogate”to have a baby. That’s something I would personally hardly get over unless the person realised their mistake and is trying to correct it in whichever way possible since most likely they have the means to correct it if they had such money in the first place. Yet I can still see that even this”horrible”woman was the victim of abuse. Maybe I wouldn’t be her friend, maybe I’d even call her out on surrogacy issue but I wouldn’t deny her humanity and acknowledging wrong being done to her if it’s already obvious for crying out loud.

Maybe this all boils down to women having very low tolerance of each other. We find personal flaws enough to completely reject women and even punish them for it, while bonding over same femininity that we may reject other women for. It’s something I’m not good with myself so I rather isolate then try to be either on receiving or the other end of it. It’s depressingly a basis for women’s relationships so I can’t say I was entirely shocked with women reacting to AH the way we had. Celebrity world is usually magnified mundane average people’s lives, not at all shiny and mysterious. Johnny is nothing but a wife beater from the block. Both Johnnies r safe.

OP posts:
Aspiringmatriarch · 15/06/2022 08:17

“To project”as some would say or simply to observe from experience: the more you justify yourself, the more people treat you as guilty regardless if you are guilty or not. Men know this and that’s why they’re mostly sneaking around and avoiding too many questions. Notice how Johnny never once felt to justify but instead gave excuses like for example when he slapped her because of tattoos-when asked about it he has not denied it or even tried to explain the event. He went to rant on about how his body or tattoos are his art bla bla bla how he takes it seriously.

Great post. Especially this, it's so true. Which is also why DARVO is so effective, as it's not just a denial but a counter accusation.

RufustheFloralmissingreindeer · 15/06/2022 08:24

All I know is that there was nothing that angered me more than people justifying my abuser, it completely sets me off and then of course they call me stupid crazy and whatnot

there was a criminal murder case in the usa where this is pretty much what happened

the husband in the case wasn’t abusive as many people would see it but he gaslit her (in the proper meaning of the word) and was incredibly petty…slowly pushed her over the edge

RufustheFloralmissingreindeer · 15/06/2022 08:25

Omg because this is mumsnet i do have to say that what the women did, in the case i am referring to, was still a dreadful thing and she is quite rightly being punished for it

Londondreams1 · 16/06/2022 04:06

I'm not trying to like her (I don't, she hires a surrogate because she's a wealthy actress - which is why she herself hasn't been hired as a surrogate by somebody else, but I digress)
But I AM trying to give her the feminist benefit of the doubt
But HOW can I possibly take her seriously when in her latest interview she apparently said: how can anyone trust a man who convinced the world he had scissors for hands?

Is she joking? Being sarcastic? What can it mean ? 😆 if she is being sarcastic she's implying he can be trusted
If she's being serious she's a sandwich short

Miscfeminista · 16/06/2022 11:36

“…how can anyone trust a man who convinced the world he had scissors for hands?”

I have no idea what that was about, I was like”Did he? Are there people out there that believed he had scissors for his hands?”. Obviously I watched that movie but still felt like I missed something and it came off even more weird because I saw someone on reddit making”Edward Scissoredhishand”joke and then thought for a second she’s trying to say something about his finger but nah. I think she was making a point of”what a great actor he is”and therefore could have been acting on stand and make up stories better than she ever could.

I mean he wasn’t very convincing to me and the misogyny mob is really indiscriminating to men who want to abuse women so don’t think they’d care even if he was acting worse but yeah he definitely was acting. Amber may have been struggling with how to talk about more vulnerable stuff given she put a lot of effort to be composed but I don’t doubt for a second that after all those drugs, JD probably has good chunk of his brain in charge for”morals”gone and could tell bunch of lies without batting an eyelid.

OP posts:
Aspiringmatriarch · 16/06/2022 12:18

I think it was 'Says the lawyer for the man who convinced the world he had scissors for hands', in response to the accusation of acting on the stand.
I.e. that he's a very accomplished actor and can act convincingly enough to make you 'believe' the fantastic.
Odd turn of phrase, that's all.

Aspiringmatriarch · 16/06/2022 13:48

I like this (might be too small to read though)

Amber Heard&Johnny Depp post verdict
Miscfeminista · 16/06/2022 14:45

Aspiringmatriarch · 16/06/2022 13:48

I like this (might be too small to read though)

😂the whole JD drama in a nutshell

I definitely got confused by her delivery of that Scissorhand bit, maybe it came off weird because it was dead quiet and the camera was focusing on her obv

OP posts:
IrisVersicolor · 16/06/2022 15:55

Aspiringmatriarch · 16/06/2022 13:48

I like this (might be too small to read though)

Spot on.

Thanks for sharing.

Friars23 · 16/06/2022 20:25

Aspiringmatriarch · 16/06/2022 13:48

I like this (might be too small to read though)

That cartoon is framing some outlier comments as part of the core narrative of the many who believe Heard lied that Depp was physically and sexually abusing her. For example I would class an outlier comment as the one in the cartoon that says Amber decided to lie about Depp before she got into a relationship with him. There have been a few who have made such silly comments but they are not the main factors that have led many to conclude AH was lying. The main factors are multiple neutral witnesses (police, real estate managers and concierge staff) saying they saw no injuries soon after Amber’s account of events of severe physical violence to her face and body, no medical reports of injuries, her own testimony not matching the photo evidence she provided as proof of her claims and her damaged credibility by proving to have lied publicly that she donated her million dollar divorce settlement.

Aspiringmatriarch · 16/06/2022 21:24

Sure, but the narrative is accurate. The far more complex explanation or the simple one we've seen too many times before. The donation is not relevant, if money was such a factor it simply makes no sense for her to have taken so much less than she was legally entitled to in the divorce settlement to begin with.

StormzyinaTCup · 16/06/2022 22:11

“…how can anyone trust a man who convinced the world he had scissors for hands?”

I definitely got confused by her delivery of that Scissorhand bit, maybe it came off weird because it was dead quiet and the camera was focusing on her obv

I think it’s just plain weird with no maybe or because.

Its as bizarre a thing to say as it would be if the verdict was reversed and JD said:

…how can anyone trust a woman who convinced the world she had a mermaids tale and could breathe underwater?

FrippEnos · 16/06/2022 22:20

Aspiringmatriarch
Sure, but the narrative is accurate.

Only because it matches your bias and narrative.

The trial has proved that it was much more nuanced.

and its interesting shift from internet media bad to internet meme true when it says what you want it to say.

IrisVersicolor · 16/06/2022 22:34

The trial has proved that it was much more nuanced.

There was zero nuance in the trial that was precisely the problem with it. Or rather there has been zero nuance in understanding it.

and its interesting shift from internet media bad to internet meme true when it says what you want it to say.

No-one can really thinks so simplistically surely?

Aspiringmatriarch · 16/06/2022 22:45

Did I say internet media is bad? I don't remember that. Not sure if I've mentioned the my views on the internet, obviously like many things it can be both a positive and a negative.

But if you want to be po-faced about a cartoon that makes its point rather well, then please go ahead. Naturally I will call something accurate if it expresses what I believe to be true. 🙂

Aspiringmatriarch · 16/06/2022 22:50

Its as bizarre a thing to say as it would be if the verdict was reversed and JD said:

…how can anyone trust a woman who convinced the world she had a mermaids tale and could breathe underwater?

Sure, but that's not exactly what she said. The question was put to her whether she was acting on the stand and she pointed out the irony of that accusation being made by Depp’s lawyer given his accomplished acting career.

I agree it came off strangely, but paraphrasing the way you have makes it sound worse than it was.

StormzyinaTCup · 16/06/2022 23:03

The question was put to her whether she was acting on the stand and she pointed out the irony of that accusation being made by Depp’s lawyer given his accomplished acting career.

She could have just answered with a straightforward 'No' and saved herself from lots of people going WTAF was that!. Less is more as they say.

FrippEnos · 16/06/2022 23:04

Aspiringmatriarch

The point is that it makes your narrative rather well in that it supports her as a victim and portrays him and his followers as extreme views, which we know is not the entire truth.