The Amber Heard / Johnny Depp Case

[TheFeministShrug]

Now, I am not defending Amber here. It sounds like she was abusive towards Johnny, but it also seems that he was abusive too. I think this is one of those rare cases where they're both as bad as each other.

However, as a feminist, I am concerned about the narrative people are pushing with this case. Despite the evidence, Amber seems to be getting a far harder time. There's also lots of "See! Women are just as abusive as men!" rhetoric swimming around.

Men who admit to abuse aren't treated half as bad as Amber is being right now. It's like the people watching want her to be as abusive as possible.

Exactly. So she legally can't talk about it and if she does there are legal consequences. That is what I said and you told me I was wrong.

Personally I hate when two people are in a fight and are equally culpable, yet one appeals for sympathy as a victim. At best, JD is as bad as AH. That doesn't make her a victim but a participant.

I’ve just read her Washington Post opinion piece again, and I can’t see anything there that I disagree with, or that should incur such wrath. I guess the case is alluded to, but Depp or the violence/incidents are not mentioned.

He’s bringing this upon her because of that article?

He lost the UK case.

He admitted to head butting her.

Why is she being perceived/portrayed by social media/the media as the crazy one, and him - the teddy bear???

Why do you keep just saying the same thing over and over without adding any substance or understanding of any of the nuances of the case?

The vast majority of media / social media are not protraying him as a teddy bear.

@Midlifemusings

I disagree and I think you are wrong there. If I want to keep making my point, I can. I’m within my rights to do that.

This is from an article. I agree with the sentiments. It’s expressing it better than I can.

The characterisation of her as an arch-manipulator hoping to benefit from false accusations against a wealthy and famous man echoes the enduring myth that women routinely “cry rape” against men for revenge, to attract attention and sympathy, and for self-benefit. In fact, false allegations of sexual violence are extremely rare and most survivors choose not to report rape exactly because they’re worried about not being believed.

Even if Depp is the victim/survivor of abuse, the ideas circulating in support of him are both dubious and disturbing. To suggest that Depp couldn’t possibly be an abuser because he’s attractive and endearing implies that domestic abuse is the preserve of brutes and beasts whose innate violence is recognisable by others if not by their gullible or stupid partners

Johnny Depp’s testimony against ex-wife Amber Heard triggered a groundswell of public support. Have a look at social media, if you can bear it, and you’ll see that Captain Jack Sparrow memes abound. Clips of Depp in full Pirates of the Caribbean costume, joking with seriously ill kids in hospital, are offered as definitive proof of the movie star’s innocence. By many of his fans, he’s constructed as a beautiful benign man-child. How could this kind, gentle, funny and charming soul ever be considered a violent abuser?

According to Depp’s online army of supporters, Heard’s heinous allegations were believed just because she’s a woman and Depp is assumed guilty just because he’s a man. Dior Sauvage – the fragrance promoted by Depp since 2015 – has seen sales increase in recognition of the brand’s loyalty to Depp throughout the allegations and trials – and the hashtags #JusticeforJohnny and #MenToo are trending regularly on Twitter.

Heard has been cast as a lying, attention-seeking, manipulative narcissist who’s crushed Depp’s career, reputation – and heart. The hashtags #AmberTurd, #MePoo – both referring to Depp’s allegation that Heard left faecal matter in his bed – and the more direct #AmberHeardisaLiar trend regularly on Twitter. Following the first day of her testimony, Heard’s make-up and facial expressions were scrutinised. She appeared to wear less eye make-up while on the stand, which some viewers took as an indication that Heard was planning “to turn on the tears” for the court. While recounting alleged incidents of sexual abuse, her facial expressions were widely ridiculed. She’s also been accused of crying without tears, and of “over-acting”. Some social media users added a Pinocchio filter over a recording of Heard on the stand showing her nose growing while she’s giving her testimony

@Midlifemusings

If you can be bothered, post that recording on this thread too, so anyone that fell for the act that was put on yesterday, can make up their own minds.

It is pretty clear what happened and who abused who and she recorded it!

news.sky.com/story/amp/depp-v-heard-amber-suffered-from-histrionic-and-borderline-personality-disorders-and-grossly-exaggerated-symptoms-of-ptsd-court-hears-12599802

This psychologist should be ashamed of herself in my opinion, she is totally taking sides and won’t even comment when asked if Depp has any mental health issues.

He has clearly employed better legal representation, better ‘expert witnesses’ and has a more charming and endearing persona which I don’t care what anybody says, is buying public sympathy and support. He oozes narcissism to a sickening degree and it’s incredibly frustrating to see that people aren’t willing to accept that they have both in the wrong and they both need therapy. It’s just that simple.

www.victimfocus.org.uk/predictably-amber-heard-just-got-diagnosed-with-bpd-and-hpd

@redhoodred1

i completely agree with you. And I really don’t care if I’m repeating myself - but I think it’s so important to take the ‘celebrity’ out of this case. To look at it as he v’s she.

And to look at what so far is ‘fact’ rather than opinions, or a one sided argument without hearing the full trial.
Based on what is ‘fact’ from the UK trial, where I’ll repeat “her version of events was deemed likely to be correct” - there is absolutely no way that she should be receiving this level of animosity on social media. As I’ve copied and pasted from the article above - to highlight that Depp ‘gentle man’/Heard ‘lying, manipulative narcissist’ IS the way it is being portrayed.

And want to know WHY she is receiving it. Rather than to just be told to stop repeating myself.
Because -sadly - I think misogyny is very much alive, well and kicking judging by the way she is being slain on social media.
And it would disturb me if, despite how badly someone has behaved, despite the status/how well liked their partner is - it prevents someone coming forward following this disgusting backlash - which is based on nothing more than conjecture.

@Greyhop

This is what people aren’t understanding, it’s the ‘sweet, gentle man’ comments that are absolutely ridiculous.

To be honest, given how incredibly, ridiculously, outrageously poor her legal representation is I don’t feel that anyone can make a true judgment on the rights and wrongs of this case.

I listened to a criminal psychiatrist talk about how the psychologists testimony should be taken with a pinch of salt because she was literally hired and paid by Johnny Depp. I do not feel that her psychological evaluation of Heard should have been allowed I feel that the court should have hired an independent person. If Heards legal representation was anything more than appalling they would not have simply allowed her to go and meet with the woman who is being paid by the man she is fighting in court.
The psychologist also refused to comment when asked if Depp has any issues with mental health, what the heck? There is outrageous bias in her testimony and behaviour so far which is unfair because the public has massively believed her.

Yes Amber has done a lot of wrong, yes she has issues, yes she needs therapy, but so does Johnny Depp. She also has an outrageously shit legal team, is less charismatic and popular than Johnny Depp, and has been dragged through the mud to such an insane extent that no one is willing to defend her because of fear of the public backlash.

Last night I struggled to get my buggy on the bus because I had my phone in one hand and my son in the other (I had no idea when the bus was coming). The bus driver in front of everyone told me to look after my child and get off the phone, when I told him that he was being was rude he said you’re not even taking care of your child get off the phone and watch your kid. I was on the phone to the police as I’m going through an absolute madness right now and I was in a state discussing my situation, I was not gossiping with a friend or scrolling through Instagram.

I don’t care what anyone says women get a harder rap than men when they make mistakes. When was the last time you heard some say ‘that man is always at work he’s never with his children?’

They both need help, pretending one person is a victim is not helpful because it’s simply not true.

@redhoodred1

i agree with every single word you said there.

I’m sorry you had the experience on the bus. Equally I’ve just been delivering and I had a man belittling me as I couldn’t find his postbox. He was shouting and waving a stick at me - and instead of standing up for myself I cowered, and practically ran.

It’s not good. And despite what everyone says, I think this case DOES highlight the #metoo movement - just from the awful portrayal on social media. The lying, narcissist, ‘@@@@‘ her dead corpse being seen as just banter v’s gentle Johnny.

Sorry about this. I do feel that as a society we have more respect for men. My dentist was telling me the other day that she is constantly belittled by male patients.

I think the ‘boys will be boys’ attitude allows men to get away with a lot; even making ‘jokes’ about drowning someone.

People keep saying that women are much more believed than men by the legal system when it comes to allegations of abuse and are now using this case to turn Johnny into a poor defenceless victim, even making comments like ‘bless him he won’t even look at her he’s so traumatised.’

This is just simply not the case though. How often are women actually taken seriously when they report DV? I’ve been punched in the face, had a bloody nose and bruises, called the police as he was running out the door, when questioned I said I’m not ready to speak right now and he’s said ok that’s fine and walked out. I remember trying to call the safeguarding team several days later and they said it was too late sorry and that was that.

Women are ignored by police time and time and time again, and punishments for violence and abuse against women are nothing more than a slap on the wrist at best unless extremely severe violence has taken place.

I was arrested for harassment recently for trying to get in touch with my then partner for 20 minutes for an extremely good reason. I know of women who have reported harassment for months and years and the police don’t do anything.

Men have an easier ride, and this case is just a cookie cutter version of that playing out right in front of our eyes. They are both f**d up, why can’t we just acknowledge that?

@redhoodred1

My goodness, that’s horrible. I’m so sorry to hear what you’ve been through. It just simply shouldn’t be that way. I actually thought good progress was being made with society’s attitude towards women but sadly this case highlights that we are still very much in the dark ages.

Thank you.

I think that as a society we say often* *that we take these things seriously but the reality is very very different. Domestic violence is poorly prosecuted and I think that one of the reasons people are being so hard on Amber is that there is a general assumption that the legal system takes violence against women extremely seriously and they shouldn’t based on her behaviour. The harsh reality is that it doesn’t, and it never has.

The poor Johnny consensus is largely driven by the narrative that women are emotional wrecks who over report abuse, and he as a man is an innocent victim of this, when the reality is that there is no taking sides in this case. I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again, they are both f**d and both need help.

It's "poor Johnny" and "nasty Amber" despite them both having behavioural issues because some men and women enjoy to hate and be suspicious of a select group of women for entertainment, e.g. see witch trials. It isn't the same for men!

Even if JD was to leave AH alone now and stop trying to control her, his fanclub want her to suffer so no doubt she'll be the target of more hate. He can do no wrong, she can do no right. To them it's clear cut and he's an innocent child.

The thing is, we know all this. Our systems have been set up by and for white men. It is nothing new. What we are seeing is the system working as it was designed to, that no matter what a white man does, it will be excused and even blamed on a woman (or a person of colour). The system is about protecting the status of white men no matter what. And it works very well.

@Enough4me, I think this hits the nail on the head!

Again, having followed some of the trial, I genuinely believe they are both deeply flawed and, arguably, deeply vulnerable individuals who desperately need help.

But the misogyny, nonetheless, is striking!

Take the "oh, but the 'drown her, burn her' thing is Monty Python, though" thing:

If I, a (white, female, it matters!) were to remove a non-white colleague from my project and said "the Moor has done his duty, the Moor can go", how many people do you think would think me racist (and, rightly so!), and how many would defend me as "oh, but that's, literally, in Schiller - it's an allusion to a true classic in European literature"?

Why are women monsters for sucking, and men to be excused even for texting their friends about fucking our corpses to make sure we are truly dead?

It's so disturbing!

The hate keeps building for AH. Every expression is seen as guilt.
Depp can smirk, laugh and joke, but it's fine he's clearly a stressed victim and is in fear of AH.

“you f*king coward, ball-less piece of sht, you think I want that f*king old ass fking piece of sht? fck you, you’re a f*king joke man.”

This is what she said to his face, I can only imagine what she texted her friends behind his back.

@Midlifemusings

i think the point is - no it’s not ok for AH to say that - equally what JD said about her corpse is not ok/shouldn’t be excused as ‘just banter’.

Yet I think earlier in this thread you’ve dismissed JD’s contemptible texts as being fine - and here AH ‘not fine’ - ‘imagine what she’s texted if she’s said that’.

What’s the difference? Why is it acceptable for JD, not acceptable from AH?

AH refused to release her texts so we have no idea what she said in texts. We only know from the recordings what she has said to his face.

If she had written that or worse about him in banter to a friend in a private text while venting about everything, I would also have no issue with it at all.

My point was - if you are horrified by Johnny's words in a private venting text then you should be expressing absolute disgust and dismay and horror at what AH has said to his face.

But above, you’ve just put a post stating if she said this to his face imagine what she said behind his back = therefore not ok/should be used against her. Whereas Monty Python = just banter and ok/shouldn’t be held against him.

I said I think they are both in the wrong, not a fan of either of them. But I can’t understand why she is getting a harder time.