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Feminism: chat

The Amber Heard / Johnny Depp Case

220 replies

TheFeministShrug · 25/04/2022 16:11

Now, I am not defending Amber here. It sounds like she was abusive towards Johnny, but it also seems that he was abusive too. I think this is one of those rare cases where they're both as bad as each other.

However, as a feminist, I am concerned about the narrative people are pushing with this case. Despite the evidence, Amber seems to be getting a far harder time. There's also lots of "See! Women are just as abusive as men!" rhetoric swimming around.

Men who admit to abuse aren't treated half as bad as Amber is being right now. It's like the people watching want her to be as abusive as possible.

OP posts:
50ShadesOfCatholic · 04/05/2022 21:00

Legrandsophie · 04/05/2022 15:02

I would be less invested if she hadn’t used the vital work of #metoo to aid her career and make a name for herself.

There seems to be no bar too low for her to cross. For me this is not about defending Johnny Depp (who obviously has drink and drug issues and I don’t doubt they had physical fights) and more about my utter disgust that people are holding her up as some kind of sainted victim when her behaviour has been utterly shocking.

I haven’t seen any coverage or posts suggesting Heard is a “sainted victim”.

And I didn’t not hold that one must be “a sainted victim” in order to be supported after they are abused. I find that a very strange notion.

Heard has her demons and her flaws. No doubt they contributed to her poor choice of partner, as is so often the case for those abused during their upbringing. They subconsciously seek the comfort of familiarity no matter how unhealthy it may seem to outsiders.

That does not negate her experience of being abused.

Enough4me · 05/05/2022 07:35

As is so often the case, even with a relationship between two adult addicts, the male's behaviour is blamed on the female and the female's behaviour is blamed on the female. It appears to be suggested by some that not only is the male due full acceptance of his behaviour and no accountability, that he deserves an apology and knighthood.

Some appear to suggest that he is soley the victim rather than part of a sybiotically destructive relationship. That he deserves retribution and she deserves harsh punishment.

The same things are brought up against her that actually make no difference to his behaviour or to the case. It doesn't matter to the case that her baby was via surrogacy (which I personally disagree with), she wasn't doing anything illegal.

Greyhop · 05/05/2022 07:38

@50ShadesofCatholic

I agree that however poorly she has behaved, this does not negate her experience of being abused.

And it concerns me that other abuse victims may feel afraid to speak out, even if they have behaved abusively themselves.

The UK case identified her as a victim, and the Sun was right to publish the piece - according to law.

I read her Washington Post article and felt that a person should be able to write that and not be censored by a deformation trial. It was her opinion.

I think the ‘celebrity’ needs to be taken out of the trial, and more focus more on how domestic abuse victims are treated.

Greyhop · 05/05/2022 07:42

@Enough4me

I agree with you. There does seem to be a ‘theme’ that she needs harsh punishment and he needs retribution.

Very wrong IMO. Very wrong.

Greyhop · 05/05/2022 07:52

He is instigating this. She is the one defending her right to speak out. She is the one having her mental health scrutinised in the media.

From the UK appeal:

The Court of Appeal also found that Depp had admitted in court that he had head-butted Heard, "frequently took quantities of illegal drugs and drank excessively" and that "there are several instances of Mr Depp acknowledging in contemporaneous texts, either to Ms Heard or to third parties, that he had been out of control through drink and drugs and had behaved very badly". Therefore "The Judge found, with considerable support from the contemporaneous evidence, that when under the influence of drink and drugs he was liable to moods of extreme anger and jealousy and could behave highly destructively." Although this alone could not prove that he had been violent towards Heard, it did make her account of the events more likely.[91]

Greyhop · 05/05/2022 08:03

Equally if Depp wrote an opinion piece in the Washington Post speaking about his experience of domestic violence, he should be ‘right’ to do that - without being taken to court and having his every action/mental health diagnosis scrutinised by the media. And I actually don’t think he’d be treated as poorly as Heard if this was the case/taken to court, despite potentially being a perpetrator as well.

Legrandsophie · 05/05/2022 09:26

Her problem is one of credibility. We only have her word that any of these things happened. And she has already been caught fabricating stories (borrowing a rape story from her ex-assistant).

There is also the fact that quite a few of her witnesses have dropped out and the only evidence she has is post break up. She hasn’t been able to produce any photos of injury or abuse from before the time that Depp left her. Photos taken of her from the times that she alleges abuse show no injuries. How do you frolic on a beach in an evening gown with broken ribs? There is a photo of her from the day after he supposedly head butted her and she has no sign of injuries. I have been headbutted- there is no way to successfully cover that injury.

Her testimony yesterday also completely contradicts what she told the nurse treating her about her drug addiction. She claimed not to take cocaine but admitted under treatment to a cocaine addiction.

Then there the fact that one of her former friends has admitted that Amber asked her to pretend that she’s seen violence in exchange for cash.

Both Elon Musk and James Franco- who could have testified to Amber’s claim that JD sent threatening texts to them- have refused to appear as witnesses.

So it really is her word the her violence was ‘reactive’ vs. the evidence of tapes, photos, medical staff and witnesses that she was the abuser.

Enough4me · 05/05/2022 16:14

@Legrandsophie yes Amber is not a nice person, but do you think her recent testimony of him ripping her clothes off to do a cavity check for drugs matches the aggression shown in his messages to one of his friends about her?
"Let's drown her before we burn her,...I will f* her burnt corpse afterward to make sure she is dead".

User135644 · 05/05/2022 18:28

Enough4me · 05/05/2022 07:35

As is so often the case, even with a relationship between two adult addicts, the male's behaviour is blamed on the female and the female's behaviour is blamed on the female. It appears to be suggested by some that not only is the male due full acceptance of his behaviour and no accountability, that he deserves an apology and knighthood.

Some appear to suggest that he is soley the victim rather than part of a sybiotically destructive relationship. That he deserves retribution and she deserves harsh punishment.

The same things are brought up against her that actually make no difference to his behaviour or to the case. It doesn't matter to the case that her baby was via surrogacy (which I personally disagree with), she wasn't doing anything illegal.

I don't care for either of them but Heard seems truly vile and has been the one who hijacked the MeToo movement and ended Johnny Depp's career when evidence suggests she was physically and emotionally abusive towards Depp to at least equal measure.

I can sympathise with her if she does have BPD and other personality disorders, as the mental health professional diagnosed in the trial, but it's no excuse for violence and abuse. Her ex-female partner has also alleged she was abusive to her in the past, so it's not just men she's accused of attacking.

Pinkyxx · 05/05/2022 19:35

I have no difficulty believing any addict fueled with drugs and booze capable of behaving paranoid, aggressively & abusively. I would fully expect the kind of behavior she described today during a detox. I'm astonished she was with him, people go to facilities to detox for a reason! He should have been with a medical team and her far away. I can totally understand her addiction was unbearable, I can't think of anyone who has lived with an addict feeling otherwise. Being an addict does not however make him a perpetrator of domestic abuse. Drugs/alcohol can exacerbate DV for sure - but is not a factor in the abuse (at least in my experience). If the Op-ed said JD is addicted to drugs / booze and behaved like an animal under the influence we would not be here.

The evidence has shown she was abusive, suffered from addictions and that she openly admits to instigating violence in some instances. Reactive violence in self defense is a common feature of almost all DV - instigating violence is not and correlates with being the abuser.

He's as bad as she is and with that in mind neither of them so IMO neither have the right to claim 'victim' status over the other. When one party of a mutually abusive relationship claims they are the victim, this seeks to apportion blame to one party and exonerate the other hence the defamation.

This whole thing conflates addicts engaging in mutual abuse with DV. This is what is doing so such a disserve to domestic abuse victims.

Midlifemusings · 05/05/2022 20:08

Enough4me · 05/05/2022 16:14

@Legrandsophie yes Amber is not a nice person, but do you think her recent testimony of him ripping her clothes off to do a cavity check for drugs matches the aggression shown in his messages to one of his friends about her?
"Let's drown her before we burn her,...I will f* her burnt corpse afterward to make sure she is dead".

Lets burn her and drown her is from a Monty Python sketch in how to deal with a possible witch. Johnny uses a lot of literary prose. It wasn't a literal plan to drown her or burn her...

Midlifemusings · 05/05/2022 20:10

Greyhop · 05/05/2022 07:38

@50ShadesofCatholic

I agree that however poorly she has behaved, this does not negate her experience of being abused.

And it concerns me that other abuse victims may feel afraid to speak out, even if they have behaved abusively themselves.

The UK case identified her as a victim, and the Sun was right to publish the piece - according to law.

I read her Washington Post article and felt that a person should be able to write that and not be censored by a deformation trial. It was her opinion.

I think the ‘celebrity’ needs to be taken out of the trial, and more focus more on how domestic abuse victims are treated.

She had signed an NDA that she would not speak about anything from the marriage. Hence she was legally obligated to not talk about her experience.

QueenOfHiraeth · 05/05/2022 20:32

IRLithappens · 26/04/2022 11:10

I think if you have seen abuse first-hand you recognise it as a pattern of control and although Johnny behaved badly at times, it's obvious he did not have the hallmarks of an abuser. For example he paid to have Amber's family live with them - abusers isolate. As another example he tried to leave during fights - abusers will not do this.

I experienced a very similar situation with a male in real life who, like Johnny had a troubled childhood. He met a woman who was an abuser and, like Amber, she deemed him someone she felt she could make use of so she set about manipulating him into a relationship.

She ingratiated himself in a similar way when he was in a low point and, similarly, spending time with her at work in a close environment. First pretending to be his best friend, keen to talk about her marriage breakup and troubled childhood, Feigning the same interests and a deep connection as friends - Johnny's statement described the same with Amber.

Once ingratiated as a "best friend", she pushed for emotional dependency and isolated him from other friends and family by being insistent on spending every minute with him, which felt flattering. She laid the kindness and the adoration on very thick then encouraged him to consume vast amounts of alcohol which led to sex after some months.

After that, she pressured him to let her move in with him. Showing up at his door drunk and crying, playing the damsel in distress and asking to sleep on his sofa because she 'needed him'. Over a short time he found himself more or less living with her, and once in this position of trust the real her came out.

She would have rages at him when he would not do what she wanted, she isolated him completely from others, she began to threaten to hurt herself if he didn't love her back, she began to threaten to expose personal secrets he had disclosed and she spread false information about him to his loved ones so they cut him off.

After a few months of this "relationship" he was on medication for stress, drinking heavily and had come to believe he was responsible for her abuse (which he did not recognise as abuse). He was made to believe the problem was she loved him so much, and he didn't return those feelings so it was his refusal to commit to her which caused her behaviour.

If he tried to leave she would say she could not live without him, or make threats, or beg for him to look after her and he almost lost his job due to things getting so crazy. She hit him, she smashed his property, she deprived him of sleep, she faked pregnancies, she lied to everyone about him, she controlled his communication, she gaslighted and made him ill.

Of course there were times he got angry, times he locked himself in the bathroom to escape (just like Johnny) and times he wrestled her to get her away from him but it did not make him an abuser- this was self defence.

When he finally got help to leave, she initially stalked and harassed him to the point the police had to get involved, and then she tried everything possible to ruin his life - from false allegations to flying monkeys.

This man's life was ruined, and whatever his faults he did not deserve it. Two years later he has PTSD and flinches if people raise their voice. He suffers from auto immune disease and is tired and sick and the time. It's been really awful.

I wish he had known two years ago that men like Johnny Depp experienced this too because he believed there was something wrong with him, he didn't understand it was abuse and what Johnny is doing might save many men from the same.

I know someone with an almost identical experience.
He suffered in the relationship then had to face stalking, false accusations and barrages of abuse after he left. I have to say the Police were amazing, far better than anything I had expected
He has been lucky to keep his job (which was at risk due to allegations she made, thankfully proved false) and I think he survived it only because of the support and love of his family
He lives almost as a recluse now which is very sad

Greyhop · 06/05/2022 07:18

@Midlifemusings

whether it is Monty Python or not - it’s a disgusting thing to say. Of course he wouldn’t ‘literally do that’ - but it reveals his attitude - or that he thinks those words are acceptable.

Greyhop · 06/05/2022 07:32

@QueenOfHiraeth

In the UK case, based on the fact that Depp had admitted to head butting Heard, contemptuous texts, destructive behaviour etc - they concluded that her account of events was most likely???

Why is everyone forgetting that?

Greyhop · 06/05/2022 07:41

The amount of sympathy Depp is getting over Heard astonished me. Given I’d say - most likely there was abuse on both sides, given that she - according to the UK case, that her account of events there was ‘likely’.

Knowing the result of the UK case, and then listening to some horrific testimony yesterday over the bottle.

Why is she receiving such venom?

Midlifemusings · 06/05/2022 12:12

Greyhop · 06/05/2022 07:18

@Midlifemusings

whether it is Monty Python or not - it’s a disgusting thing to say. Of course he wouldn’t ‘literally do that’ - but it reveals his attitude - or that he thinks those words are acceptable.

I think you would find that if you read the private texts of many people who have been in abusive relationships with a spouse who cheated that they aren't particularly lovely. I am sure that many people have called someone an asshole or dickhead or other demeaning terms and wished unpleasant things for them.

Greyhop · 06/05/2022 13:07

@Midlifemusings

The UK court case said the texts were ‘contemptible’ which they are.
They were used as part of the decision not to let Depp appeal the ruling - which was that what Heard was saying was ‘likely’.

Sorry - but I don’t believe, even if my partner cheated - that I’d text a friend that I would want his dead corpse @@@@@@. It’s a hideous thing to say.

I simply cannot understand why a man smearing/writing in blood around a room is deemed less ‘crazy’/more acceptable than a woman attempting to defend herself where a UK case has already ruled in her favour.

Greyhop · 06/05/2022 14:08

He is doing this to her, he has instigated the trial. Over an opinion piece which I think she has the right to speak out about. Following the the UK court stated that what she said was ‘likely true’. Surely she has the right to speak out and not be censored by a deformation trial, however poor her own behaviour has been.

Midlifemusings · 06/05/2022 14:20

Yes, obviously the language is comtemptible - my point is that when people are angry and hurt and betrayed - they write and say contemptible things about the people who hurt them in private conversations.

And he clearly is an addict who acts in awful ways when under the influence. I am not convinced he has hit her. She isn't a credible witness - given her many lies and inconsistencies. That doesn't mean she hasn't been physically abused - but it means I don't trust anything she says. I posted a link in another thread to a recording where most of the talking is done by the House manager, head of security, doctor and nurse. I am more interested in third party accounts - especially when not on the stand to get a better sense. That recording furhter reinforced my current perspective. She has made up the assualts. They clearly had many fights over his drinking / drugs as he trashed rooms and she threw things at him and hit him.

Midlifemusings · 06/05/2022 14:21

Greyhop · 06/05/2022 14:08

He is doing this to her, he has instigated the trial. Over an opinion piece which I think she has the right to speak out about. Following the the UK court stated that what she said was ‘likely true’. Surely she has the right to speak out and not be censored by a deformation trial, however poor her own behaviour has been.

She doesn't legally have the right as she signed a NDA taking away her legal right to talk about anything related to the marriage or Johnny.

RoseslnTheHospital · 06/05/2022 14:26

A NDA doesn't take away any legal rights. It's a separate legally enforceable contract, and isn't intended to be used to cover up abusive behaviour and sexual assaults.

deydododatdodontdeydo · 06/05/2022 14:27

He is doing this to her, he has instigated the trial.

And if someone libelled you, you would ignore it? Or would you "instigate" things?

Surely she has the right to speak out and not be censored by a deformation trial,

She can speak out, but if what she's saying is untrue, it's libel. And the court case is trying to decide that.

Midlifemusings · 06/05/2022 14:31

RoseslnTheHospital · 06/05/2022 14:26

A NDA doesn't take away any legal rights. It's a separate legally enforceable contract, and isn't intended to be used to cover up abusive behaviour and sexual assaults.

You are 100% wrong. It absolutely does mean she can't publicly talk or write about him. It doesn't take away her legal right to report abuse to the authorities but it 100% takes away her right to write or talk about him or their marriage in the marriage. She has signed a legal contract saying she will not do that.

RoseslnTheHospital · 06/05/2022 14:35

Signing a contract to say you won't talk about xyz doesn't mean you can't talk about xyz. It means if you do, you can be taken to court and potentially have the penalty clauses in the contract enforced. Or be sued to return any payments you were given. Sometimes people choose to break a NDA and accept the risk of legal penalties because they've changed their mind and think it's worth it.

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