The Amber Heard / Johnny Depp Case

[TheFeministShrug]

Now, I am not defending Amber here. It sounds like she was abusive towards Johnny, but it also seems that he was abusive too. I think this is one of those rare cases where they're both as bad as each other.

However, as a feminist, I am concerned about the narrative people are pushing with this case. Despite the evidence, Amber seems to be getting a far harder time. There's also lots of "See! Women are just as abusive as men!" rhetoric swimming around.

Men who admit to abuse aren't treated half as bad as Amber is being right now. It's like the people watching want her to be as abusive as possible.

If she had gone and gotten on with her life he would not have brought legal action. He's not trying to destroy her, he's trying to get justice.

Having experienced the trauma of false allegations IRL with my friend, I can't begin to imagine how it would feel for the entire world to think you were guilty of abuse when you knew perfectly well you were the victim.

Good on him for standing up to her, it was clear from her audio recordings she never thought he would. The expert witness testified 90% of female abusers threaten or carry out false allegations of abuse. Unsuprising, this is a great way to apply fear and power, as like her audio recording said - "who's going to believe you?"

The brass nuts of a person to know they had hit their intimate partner, put cigarettes out on their face, cut off their finger, literally had them hiding in the bathroom to escape violence........ to then go on TV, to testify in court, to speak at events and in publications as a VICTIM of domestic violence is almost mind blowing. She was even arrested for DV before she met Johnny!

Stealing the rape story for her own gain shows she's a really disturbing character too, which goes beyond basic lies and manipulation to being deeply concerning.

@AMindOfMyOwn It's a typical scenario. When it happened to my friend IRL, he was a man so he kept silent whilst she framed herself as a victim publicly. She would, similarly, attack him and he would try and get away, hiding anywhere he could. On one occasion for example she had been raging and smashing things and attacking him for several hours and he physically dragged her out of his home after she refused for six hours to leave and blocked him from exiting. She sustained a bruise on her arm and then photographed it and sent it to him threatening to tell the police. Also, she would stand outside his home punching herself in the face saying she would tell people he did it if he didn't let her in. Women like this do exist!

I’m not disputing it @IRLithappens .

im more thinking that having all the support she has around her from victim support group, lawyers etc… she would have taken him to court if she actually had a case.
The fact she didn’t makes me think he doesn’t have a case.
That and the fact she has been told by her own lawyer she didn’t have a case.

It would have been a cleaner cut for both of them to actually have had a trial for domestic abuse as such rather than two trials by proxy.

He's the one who wants to destroy her, she has moved on but he wants to continue the drama.

But she clearly hasn't moved on given her article about being a DV victim implicating JD as the perpetrator. She's still trying to needle him.

I understand him wanting to clear his name given the impact all this has had on his career. But honestly, even if the court finds in his favour, he's had so much unsavoury and dissolute behaviour aired in the media during both court cases, I think his career is well and truly over regardless.

That article by Heard was published by the Washington Post in 2018, about 4 years ago now. It's just odd to try to characterise this as Heard continuing to "needle" Depp.

Can't agree that Depp is the aggressor forbpursuing her legally. She wrote a lengthy article about beingbthe victim of domestic abuse that was published in a reputable newspaper. It cost him work. Was he supposed to just shrug that off?
I'd also remind you that one of these two was charged in the past for domestic asdault on their female partner, and itvwasn't Johnny.

I struggle to imagine anyone saying a woman was "dragging it out" by taking her abuser to court. It's interesting to see the different way we treat men. I have had my fair share of horrible men in my life, and generally speaking I think women are superior in almost every sense (ha ha, sorry, we rock!) but abuser is genderless and people are equally damaged by it. He deserves justice just as much as a woman in his shoes would do and I think what he's doing will open up so many men's eyes to see they are beign abused, which is a great thing.

It wasn't Heard either. She was arrested for an assault on her female partner, but there was no case to answer and the charges were dropped.

Depp was losing work due to his own issues prior to the 2018 article by Heard.

She also sold recordings to TMZ. TMZ has the copyright which means they bought them from the person who initially had the copyright.

In general with this case, I can't make head nor tail of their drunken rows. He clearly has substance abuse issues and has behaved like a twat. Harder to tell with her (how much she is the aggressor vs reacting "normally" to living with an alcoholic), but she comes across as the psychologically stronger and smarter person in the relationship. I reckon he is the more agreeable person when sober, but sobriety has been lacking.

What has shocked me, though, was Depp wheeling out a psychologist in court who he seems to have paid to "diagnose" Amber with various personality disorders. When you listen to this psychologist's testimony, it just sounds like she is essentially saying that Amber is a difficult hysterical meanie. The way she talks about Amber is weird and petty and tinged with spite. It sounds like what men and their pet psychologists have said since time immemorial to have a difficult woman institutionalised, lobotomised or otherwise discredited.

I also found it a bit odd that Depp has spent so much time on the stand talking about his allegedly abusive mother, as if to suggest that Amber has carried the baton forwards. As we know that abusers were often abused in childhood themselves, I'm not even sure why this was considered a wise defence strategy.

I didn't realise the Washington Post article dated from 2018.

But I do understand Depp's desire to - in his eyes - set the record straight.

Johnny’s exes say he wasn’t at all abusive, that he was loving and respectful. Johnnys friends say he’s a gentle nice guy that drinks and takes drugs, a real southern gentleman.

Amber’s exes and associates say she’s Trouble and she’s been taken to court before.

Who dragged down who?

Amber having personality disorders absolutely fits with what you hear in the tapes and her general behaviour overall - along with her childhood trauma. For example the recording where they were both initially calmly discussing how best to manage future arguments. Her emotional reactivity, her fear of abandonment, her escalating and using accusations, threats, and physical actions to get him to stay - are all classic BPD signs. BPD fits very well with all the evidence - regardless of what the psychologist says. I do agree her approach to giving testimony was odd and she spent a lot of time generalizing the behaviours to "people with these scores" versus talking specifically about Amber. And she did really talk about a lot of very negative behaviours assocaite with PDs without even clarifying if Amber had those patterns or not.

Both Amber and Johnny seemed to have married their mothers in this relationship. Her parents were both alcoholics and her dad beat her mom when drunk and his mother was a manipulative, cruel, psychologically abusive woman and he lived on eggshells trying not to upset her or be in the line of fire.

None of these court cases are criminal cases, they are civil cases and are about damages not justice. The UK one was taking the Sun to court rather than Heard, she was simply a witness.

Domestic abuse is not "genderless" and people are not equally damaged by it. There is not an avalanche of men being killed by their female partners on a weekly basis for starters.

www.womensaid.org.uk/information-support/what-is-domestic-abuse/domestic-abuse-is-a-gendered-crime/

The only point I can agree on is that the evidence being given by both parties in this case demonstrates how not to conduct a personal relationship, and that many of the behaviours shown are abusive.

As far as I'm aware, when it's Amber's "turn" for evidence she will also have a psychologist who has exanined Johnny and will present their findings on him.

Coronavirus, the backlogs already existing in the US prior to this and a delay for the case regarding The Sun are what delayed this case. It was in the offing before the original one.

The last two years have not been "normal" years so the delay isn't really surprising.

Abuse is not genderless at all. That's utter rubbish. Violence has a massive sex based component and all statistics support that.

Quite. My take on it was that it’s no wonder Depp is so mean and violent, it’s just been explained to the court. I can’t imagine why anyone considered it as a defence.

She is entitled to write her story, we are all entitled to our stories.

what you are overlooking is that he is a proven liar and aggressor, this has been found in a court of law.

she has not. Not has she ever made a complaint about him through the legal system. He is the one continually seeking to manipulate the legal system to further abuse her, as is the way with aggressive, entitled and powerful men. This is all on him. You can be sure that posts like mine would be deleted if there was even a sliver of possibility that they could be considered defamatory. They cannot be because it’s true.

Ok @Midlifemusings - I haven't followed it as closely and I don't have a psychology background, so fair enough if the diagnosis fits despite the psychologist witness's odd manner. I've heard the odd reference to Amber's childhood trauma but haven't been able to discover what it is - Google just brings up Depp's childhood trauma!

I stole this from Facebook and this is all I’m saying on the subject as I’ve had friends who have been through it. There are faults on both sides, that much is obvious but to me, as a woman this speaks volumes! (Please read to the end, I am NOT the author!)

“A domestic survivor is finally taking her abuser to court. This poor woman had a cigarette put out on her face, a finger cut off, slaps and punches were part of her normal day, the man defecated in her bed while his friends laughed. There are audio and pictures to back all of this up. There were doctors that witnessed some of the abuse. The man put makeup on to imitate bruises for pictures and court appearances, but the next day there were no bruises to be seen. The man tried so so so hard to ruin this woman’s life. The media didn’t even ask her side. They blamed her drinking as the problem (she had been sober for YEARS but the violent relationship had led her back to her addiction, her only escape) the man leaked a picture of her asleep with ice cream melted on her to prove how “out of control” she was. To shame her even more. All of her past partners have stepped up to support her, all saying she was nothing but kind and loving. How can we treat domestic abuse survivors this way?? This woman isn’t a woman, she’s Johnny Depp, and the man is Amber Heard. For some reason his abuse wasn’t taken serious, it was mocked. If he were a woman would it have been so openly mocked? Abuse is Abuse. We need to protect victims regardless of gender. #JusticeForJohnnyDepp #AmberHeardIsAnAbuser”

From what I read, her father (and in some places it says her parents - aka mother too) were alcoholics and her father beat her mother when drunk. Amber witnessed that violence as a child.

@Nosquit Conveniently leaving out Depp's history of violence, there.

That's emotive nonsense though. It's littered with unproven allegations treated as fact, because it is Depp alleging them.

Also his history of deliberately seeking relationships with much younger and less powerful women. Wasn't Winona still a teenager when he got involved with her?

He's a creep. Sure, Amber Heard has mental health problems and behaved violently too, but the desperation to argue for Depp as a poor, pathetic victim is really something else. He's been treating his partners horribly for decades.

Can you elaborate with links?