The Amber Heard / Johnny Depp Case

[TheFeministShrug]

Now, I am not defending Amber here. It sounds like she was abusive towards Johnny, but it also seems that he was abusive too. I think this is one of those rare cases where they're both as bad as each other.

However, as a feminist, I am concerned about the narrative people are pushing with this case. Despite the evidence, Amber seems to be getting a far harder time. There's also lots of "See! Women are just as abusive as men!" rhetoric swimming around.

Men who admit to abuse aren't treated half as bad as Amber is being right now. It's like the people watching want her to be as abusive as possible.

This. Amazing to see how many people are willing to defend him, even on a feminist board.

This. Amazing to see how many people are willing to defend him, even on a feminist board.

I think it would be damaging to feminism if women werent seen as having the ability to abuse

Are men the most common abusers? Absolutely yes

Does excusing a woman being an abuser because she has the same genitals as me further the cause of feminism? I dont think so

I'm not sure if I think your general case is true here.

There are plenty of women, and men too really, who have no time for male abusers, and tend to assume female abusers were just responding to abuse they received themselves. Rather than accepting the possibility that some women are just nasty psychopaths or narcissists.

But in any case, I think that worrying about "the narrative" in these instances is really dangerous. What is important, to the pepole involved and the law, is the truth of what is going on. As soon as we start to worry that it doesn't serve the narrative we want it to, we are getting into seriously dangerous territory. Because what's the solution - suppress what really happened because it might give people the wrong idea?

Like in the grooming scandals?

I do think a certain number of people find Depp to be more likable, probably because he is more well known but also he's a charismatic person, and who knows, maybe apart from all this he is nicer than she is. AH on the other hand seems to have a personality that puts a lot of people off, even before she was involved with Depp. None of which is a fair way to judge an abuse situation but it maybe has more to do with how people react to individuals than any particular narrative bias.

She's said she did and there are recordings of her hitting him and telling him no one will believe him.

She also had a restraining order against him, and when he was living at a hotel she went there and tried to seduce him. It's difficult to see that as the action of someone desperate to get away from an abuser.

She comes across as a toxic manipulator and seems to have form for that in other relationships as well.

I don't think she's a victim at all. She has form for beating up her partners, she was arrested in 2009 for hitting her then girlfriend.

She was arrested once, and the charge eventually dropped. That's not a history of violence against multiple partners. This is what Tasya Van Ree said later about the incident - "In 2009, Amber was wrongfully accused for an incident that was misinterpreted and over-sensationalised by two individuals in a powerful position. I [recall] hints of misogynistic attitudes toward us which later appeared to be homophobic when they found out we were domestic partners and not just 'friends.'"

People seem determined to take things that are accusations, and treat them as proven facts. Heard is not a nice person, she is undoubtedly unpleasant and has clearly been violent to Depp. But the court cases are about whether Depp was abusive to her (too) or not, it's about Depp's behaviour only. Because he is the one who is trying to show that he has not been abusive, in order to win damages due to defamation.

Having lived with a violent drunk who would purposely provoke me, I know which side I find more plausible. I wasn't a perfect victim either, but I was still a victim.

The story my ex tells of our relationship isn't too dissimilar to Depp's "poor me" story either.

Even those saying that Amber is an unpleasant person cannot take away the fact he was found guilty of abuse and he's the one dragging her to court again. He's the one who wants to destroy her, she has moved on but he wants to continue the drama.

The money would be much better spent on charity rather than wasted on lawyers going through the same conversations.

I don't think people's perceptions are really about what the court cases are limited to considering.

I wonder if he sees her going off happy and having a baby (by surrogate which I don't personally agree with but not the point here) and that she's still young and now free, and he wants to drag her to court as a method of control.

When one person gets attacked and the other defends themselves, their actions are not at all comparable. Although they are both physically violent, one is an action of aggression and abuse, while the other is of defense and peace.

AH was clearly the abuser in this relationship, and if JD ever snapped and retaliated that doesn't make him 'equally abusive'. At worst he's someone who snapped, like human being sometimes do.

And his vile texts are a non-sequitur. Privately texting something disgusting about someone, is not being abusive to them.

Omg thissssss is the absolute truth for so many victims of DV! I had around a year of this!!! Without any knowledge

Why did a judge find that he was violent 12/14 times?
Why is it him dragging her to court on both occasions when she had wanted to get away from him?
Why is he showing DARVO and looking smug about it between his acting stints in the courtroom?

Plus, why do some men and women let him off his involvement in an abusive relationship because they like his cheeky chappy persona, as in Jack sparrow?
(Yes AH is not likeable, but why does him being likeable let him off?)

The thing I find hard to square with her being the victim is her lies and the abuse of her assistant.

has anyone read the U.K. trial transcripts? Amber’s former assistant Katherine James testified that the rape at machete point allegation that Amber’s team had already filed as evidence in the U.K. case (but then quietly withdrew in light of KJ’s testimony) was actually what had happened to KJ. She had told Amber the story and Amber had taken it and made it her own.

This testimony was disallowed by the U.K. judge because it had no bearing on the U.K. case (didn’t pertain to whether Depp was demonstrably a wife beater).

KJ’s testimony is when I changed my mind about the whole thing. Who uses someone else’s rape story as their own against their ex- a narcissistic abuser, that’s who.

Or he wants to clear his name and thinks any amount of money is worth doing so?

Or this is DARVO and he's willing to throw in his money to keep it going?
They are both awful, but only one of them is trying to keep this going.

AH chose not to let sleeping dogs lie by saying she was a victim of domestic abuse in an article. That's why JD brought the case. Whether she was right to do that or not, who can say. Should she have stayed silent to avoid being "dragged back to court"? 🤷‍♀️

He doesn’t keep dragging her back to court. The Virginia trial was already in the offing when the U.K. trial (which was JD vs. the Sun libel case) went ahead. The US system is just slower. The Virginia case is the only one he has brought against her.

And if you read the U.K. trial transcript you’ll find that her initial claim was for three incidents for which she had no evidence. It expanded to 14 only for the U.K. trial. She was told by a US divorce attorney that what she had did not added up to domestic abuse so she’s manufactured evidence (ie- stealing someone else’s rape story).

Yes he does keep dragging her back to court. He could have at any time dropped or settled the case. He is a megalomaniac who is still trying to control her.

No he’s obsessed with clearing his name

@50ShadesOfCatholic

Look, I can’t do anything about what you do and don’t believe. But factually, he has sued her once and she has counter sued him once. His U.K. suit was against The Sun for defamation. They chose to call her as their witness to defend their case.

You haven’t addressed the fact that AH’s ex-assistant has accused her of stealing her traumatic rape story to make false accusations against Depp, which were then withdrawn. How can you defend someone who steals someone else’s rape story and weaponises it for their own gain?

Here is the reporting on that story:

Guardian Article Kate James

@IRLithappens I have to say the scenario you describe is the one that came to my mind when I hear about that story.

im wondering why, if there was that many proofs she abused her she didn’t go to the police and attack him directly. I mean surely , as a member if a domestic abuse group, talking about ut etc… she would want that to be settled very clearly? And she had advice and support at hand?

And tbh the current claim from Depp looks like a way to do a retrial of the first case. Because let’s be honest, even though the real subject of those two cases are not to settle whether he was or not abusing her, this is exactly what both of those are doing.

IRLithappens

That's just awful