The Amber Heard / Johnny Depp Case

[TheFeministShrug]

Now, I am not defending Amber here. It sounds like she was abusive towards Johnny, but it also seems that he was abusive too. I think this is one of those rare cases where they're both as bad as each other.

However, as a feminist, I am concerned about the narrative people are pushing with this case. Despite the evidence, Amber seems to be getting a far harder time. There's also lots of "See! Women are just as abusive as men!" rhetoric swimming around.

Men who admit to abuse aren't treated half as bad as Amber is being right now. It's like the people watching want her to be as abusive as possible.

@RoseslnTheHospital

I don’t think the judge was wrong. I’m just telling you that the cases wasn’t to convict him of domestic abuse. It wasn’t a criminal trial so the standard of evidence was different. The Sun won the right not to retract the article and pay damages.

Yes. Why do you think I'm not aware of that? I've been quite clear what the uk trial was and what it was about. So, it's clear that you accept that on the balance of probability, Depp did abuse Heard on 12 out of the 14 incidents considered in that court case. And that a description of him as a wife beater is accurate and not libellous.

"If she hit him then he deserved it.
Her account is true and his is false
His drinking is a sign he is an abuser but hers is normal
Her credibility can’t be questioned but his can"

Where have you seen these things? On this thread? Where?

No one is saying that she isn't abusive. What people are saying is that both of them were abusive to each other. Being abusive yourself doesn't mean you can't also be a victim of abuse.

Its not just nice women that are abused by men

@RoseslnTheHospital

So the 12 out of 14 charges thing is misleading. They didn’t have to prove it actually happened or the context for the injuries if they did. What they had to prove is that on balance of probability it might have happened the was Amber said it did- in a libel case witness testimony is admissible in the way it would not be in a criminal case.

One of the friends who testified for Amber in the U.K. has recently switched to testify for Depp in Virginia after Amber assaulted her. A former friend of AH is also going to testify in Virginia that Amber contacted her after the break up to provided a false statement about Depp’s behaviour. Which matches up with her asking her staff to perjure themselves regarding the dogs in Australia.

It may well be that there is a re-trial in The Sun libel case if he wins defamation in Virginia (where more of the evidence is admissible).

@Legrandsophie You cannot have been online much over the past few days if you sincerely believe AH isn't getting a much harder time in the court of public opinion. She verifiably is - even here on a woman centric website where people might be expected to understand mutually abusive relationships.

I don't think it has anything to do with being nice. Abuse has to do with being scared. And he was clearly scared of her - hiding in bathrooms, trying to placate her, leaving the property. She was clearly not remotely scared.

Having been through this, and dealing with the woman who abused by friends, even the thought of the person gives me literal diarrhea years later. Instantly. I was literally terrified of her. Listening to AH on those tapes, she was not remotely scared of Johnny.

@Innocenta

It very much depends what websites you read. Opinions are very split online. But away from social media and in real life one has lost almost all their earnings and has a tattered reputation and the other is a spokesperson for domestic violence who is supported by numerous advocacy groups.

That's really not reflective of the posting patterns across most major sites, @Legrandsophie

@Legrandsophie no, there won't be a retrial of The Sun's case. By Depp's own admission he has done enough for The Sun to be considered accurate in calling him a wife beater.

What I wish the outcome of the US trial to be is for each side to be found to have proven their case, with nominal damages of $1 awarded to both parties.

@Innocenta
Like all things online it probably depends on the echo chamber you inhabit. I know a lot of what I see is support for Amber and criticism of Depp, especially from women’s advocacy groups. They are not doing themselves any favours.

I will confess that I have my own axe to grind. Amber reminds me very much of my MIL, who is one of the most self centred people I’ve ever met. She managed successfully in the 90s to get full custody of DH and his sisters, as well as most of the marital assets by threatening to accuse FIL of domestic abuse. She was a nurse so she’s seen enough cases to make up a good story.

The truth was that it was her abusing FIL. He eventually couldn’t take it any more and left with only his car and the clothes on his back. He slept in his car for a month while trying to find a house.

Sadly, I know all this to be true because poor DS witnessed the whole thing. But because he was 9 and no one told him why his dad had left he couldn’t speak up for him. He has quite clear memories of her throwing things, including knives at his dad and his dad having to attempt to restrain her from strangling him when she was angry.

She still maintains to everyone that she was a victim and that she left FIL because he’d shagged everyone in the village. But DH and his sisters know the truth. Women can be abusers. MIL uses the scar on her head as evidence of abuse. When really she cut it after tripping over while chasing FIL round the house in an attempt to hit him with a pan. She is also a drunk.

On the balance of probability through the reports of their words and actions, they are both horrendous and both deserve the loss to earnings. He is the one pursuing this wanting to be declared innocent, but he clearly isn't.

What do those defending him want, he can't make his words or behaviour disappear?

They are both hideous.

I kn

@Innocenta @50ShadesOfCatholic
Yet his longest relationship was with Vanessa Paradis who is 1 year his senior. The mother of his children. Together 15 years. She has spoken out in support of him as having been kind and not violent. Winona Ryder spoken out similarly. I am following the case extremely closely and can’t find an ex partner who says anything otherwise.

Well said.

Bollocks, Paradis a decade younger, Winona Ryder 11yrs younger

The case so far for amber at best shows there is mutual violence and at worst that it is her that is the abuser and instigator. I am disgusted that knowing she was violent she piggy backed on the metoo movement and made financial gains as a domestic abuse victim. Her defence is going to be make or break especially as she can not have Depp undertake a psychology assessment as he has not claimed any mental health illness, hers was allowed as she claims PTSD. I don’t think for Depp this is not so much about winning financial gains but to kick start a career and silence future claims by amber. His reputation was in the gutter already, this so far is giving his a boost and hers a kicking and both have damaged future domestic violence victims.

The thing i hate is the support for depp is that fans kind.that make crazy can't discuss,often hateful people not no or listen just see their "star" "love" and obsession.a bit like if Harry styles got into trouble.
It's putting people on a pedestal it's the star effect which I think has the danger to hurt victims.
A bit like when footballers abuse,rape or drink drive.some people venimously stick up for them.get really nasty and itrational.and u think not even u think this is ok but you just adore the bloke.

@kateandme

Yeah, that is terrible. And I am not saying that many of the people supporting Depp aren’t guilty of that.

But there is another element that is using the very stories that you’ve used as example- footballers and pop stars being always believed over their victims- as proof that he must be the guilty one without examining all the evidence.

And if the evidence pointed to him being any more than an addiction addled mess then I would agree with you. Unfortunately, the evidence that has been presented so far paints a very damning picture of Amber Heard using the Me Too movement and her ex’s vulnerabilities to score pay offs and paid gigs. And in doing so she’s undermining real victims of domestic abuse.

The fact that she admitted to hitting him, stole a rape story, walked off with the money she’s promised to charity, asked witnesses to perjure themselves and made demonstrably false claims is only really damaging other victims of domestic abuse.

Because if Amber is pulling this shit then it just gives the world more proof that all women are making it up. Which is why I think the feminist groups who are supporting her are doing us all a disservice.

@Legrandsophie good post.

There really isn't a high rate of femicide (or 'avalanche' as another poster put it). Even if the estimate of 100 women per year killed by men is true, there are roughly 23,000,000 women in the UK. Which means 1 out of 230,000 men kills a woman per year. Far too many and most certainly unacceptable, but not a high rate by any measure.

@RoseslnTheHospital

In fact, rather the opposite, that someone can be abusive, unpleasant, badly behaved and also a victim.

In that case they're a participant, not a victim.

@Crumbler I wonder why you want to downplay the problem of femicide? Perhaps you should familiarise yourself with the scale and impact of this crime:

https://amp.cnn.com/cnn/2021/09/30/world/femicide-explainer-as-equals-intl-cmd/index.html

Note that the lack of strong global data means no one ultimately knows how many women are being murdered. But per the link, "the problem is probably bigger" than the data we do have.

Defamation happens a lot. Defamation cases are extremely expensive so majority of the time people get away with it

JD has the money to pursue a case and good for him. He wants the truth out and his name cleared. I’d do the same if I was him