Immigration: Sh*t just got real...

[Miljea]

Wonder how Timmy Wetherspoons is frothing today?

Points based??

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-51550421BBC

"Low-skilled workers would not get visas under post-Brexit immigration plans unveiled by the government.

It is urging employers to "move away" from relying on "cheap labour" from Europe and invest in retaining staff and developing automation technology."

And take on the 6m 'economically inactive' 16-64 year olds in Britain.

Good luck with that.

Gosh, that devil is in the detail, innit?

And, separate but important point, who the chuff is clamouring to get into the UK, now, other than southern Asians uniting families? (Which I completely understand).

I don't see that points based is a bad thing. Even when dh was sent abroad (and we joined him) by HM Forces, so fell under the SOFA (Status of Forces Act), we still had to prove to the Belgian authorities (in a fellow EU member state, so should not have been asked) how much he earned; that it was sufficient to support us, and that HMG would pick up our healthcare costs. For many countries, it's nothing new to ask this, or have set criteria.

I think if this makes employers pay higher wages that in turn cut the bill for tax credits, that can only be a good thing, as government should not be subsidising big business on a permanent basis.

As an economically inactive person, I'd be happy to work, but I don't need to financially. Dh retired last year at 58, so doesn't want to work again, having done 40 years odd, and has no need to work. Ds is job hunting post MA.

I think that people still want to come to the UK for the universities; we train foreign military personnel; parts of Eastern Europe are still very poor and wages will be higher in the UK, especially parts of Poland (my cleaning lady in Belgium was Polish and said that where her family was in Poland was still very poor...her sister was working on the black in Brussels to send money home to enable her husband to keep their farm going).

We are a tolerant nation still, even though you don't think so, and I would rather live in the UK than anywhere else.

Wasn't this always what was on the cards? A drop in net migration but still recruiting where needed?

Of all the things I'm disappointed about re brexit I can't honestly say this one of them. It means immigration is still available and is merit based (with some compassionate) exceptions. Many countries have a system like this and honestly our own non eu system is basically this

Are you looking for something to be outraged at?

See also: care workers.

But yay blue passports.

Wow what a tragedy a lot of countries do this and survive. 🙄

The people who want to go to the UK for its universities (which are currently on strike) and can afford to pay the fees are not the ones targeted by this legislation.

It will hit exactly those people who were willing to come to the UK and do jobs that UK citizens won't do at the terrible rates now offered. Those rates are currently only attractive to people who then send their pay back to countries where the cost of living is far lower. They will fall below the threshold and won't be considered skilled enough.

Many businesses will be struggling to cover the new costs of a post-Brexit UK and the current government is not likely to impose any measures to help workers, so the chances of wage rises are slim, at best.

Meanwhile, skilled workers such as academics, for instance, are leaving the UK in droves and they clearly don't share the view that it is a tolerant, welcoming country to live in. Windrush and comments about people treating the UK "like their own country" have blown that idea out of the water.

It’s normal not to let in people unless they have a good reason to immigrate or are so rich that they could never burden your country or so skilled that they would be valuable to your country. Don’t all countries do this where treaty obligations don’t apply?

I used to think we were a tolerant nation - I wish I still did.

None of this makes practical sense to me - whatever the politics/morality of it, where are the UK workers who are going to fill the gaps that this policy will create? The 8 million who are "economically inactive" (who Priti Patel, incidentally the child of unskilled migrants who wouldn't now get into the UK, says are the solution) are students, long term sick, SAHPs, retired people - none of whom will be queuing up to work for minimum wage in a care home or on a building site.

Other countries have similar systems. But AFAIK they didn't introduce them at a time when they had voluntarily wiped out many of their existing trade agreements and were about to enter into a period of extremely tense negotiations, led by rather inexperienced politicians, against a far stronger opponent and were facing huge economic uncertainty.
The system also ignores considerable variation across the different areas of the UK, as evidenced by the Scottish executive's efforts to provide specific visas for immigration to hard-hit rural areas. Those efforts have - unsurprisingly - been dismissed out of hand by Westminster.

This is great news. This is why must people voted Brexit. It was getting ridiculous.

Define 'ridiculous'

Many EU workers in the UK would be deemed unskilled but still did/do work of vital importance to the country (care workers, catering staff, etc.). They didn't steal jobs from the thousands of equally determined and professional UK citizens clamouring to do them.

It has been demonstrated that EU immigrants to the UK contributed to the UK economy to such an extent that the idea they were a "burden" is simply inaccurate.

I've got my card ready, who else is playing?

So now a proper immigration policy is a problem and unfair because it is now affecting white people? Migrants from Africa and Asia for example have been jumping through hoops for years.

Where are these 8 million economically inactive people? We have apparently low unemployment, about 1 million. So where are they?

Or are they expecting the retired and disabled to get out there?

How can social care be automated?

Anyone?

Definition of ridiculous in context

‘allowing mass unskilled immigration for several years to the point the majority of Brits felt we needed to cap it’

Thankfully common sense and better judgement has prevailed.

Why did you feel we needed to cap it?

Well it’s all very well inviting hundreds of thousand low skilled workers to come cover the care sector but it’s a short term fix. These workers are people to, they will get older and need care too, the UK should rightly provide that care. What then? Open door policy with another continent?
The migration numbers are a time bomb.

It would be my understanding that large numbers of low-skilled (paid?) immigrant workers are here because sterling is worth far more 'at home'; in the same way Brits in the Middle East, once they earn their stash, go home.

Britain is not peppered with elderly retired Phillipina women, is it? Those who nursed us , cared for us and our DC, for decades during their working careers. They're 'back home', now.

Fools time bomb? Seriously? What is about to explode?

122,000 current vacancies in care work. We need more workers in this sector, not less!

This what I always meant when I voted to stop FOM. I wanted a system that didn't discriminate against creed or colour. I always disliked the way certain companies have thrived on employing people on minimum wage and O hours contracts. Perhaps the automation of things like warehouse jobs will free up more people to do other jobs. Many jobs in the service sectors were done by students and school children. When did school children stop having Saturday and holiday jobs? Or wash dishes in the local?
In Australia they have a young person's visa for those who want to travel and work their way round the world. So I do think we should do that. It would help in the tourist industry. I do however not have a solution for the lack of staff in the care sector and I really think there should be an exemption for that.

The policy is all about 'want' rather than need, it's been obvious for years that the care and hospitality sectors need labour. It would have been fairer to allow more freedom of movement, allow India visa travel as part of a trade deal, to maintain the supply of workers. It's a fallacy that we have enough unemployed waiting to do the work. If we did there would be no vacancies in those sectors.

Don't forget that a lot of retired people are acting as unpaid carers for either elderly relatives, grandchildren or both, so are not available to do paid work.

It sounds like yet another cobbled together on the back of an old envelope policy. Still if Patel ruins her own career by this ill thought out policy, who are we to stop her?

When did school children stop having Saturday and holiday jobs? Or wash dishes in the local?

My 16 and 18 year olds have part-time jobs as do their friends. It's admittedly very hard for kids 15 and under to get paid employment but round here it is normal to go to school and work part-time if you're in Sixth Form (16-18).
Our local pub hires under 18s to wash dishes - is that unusual?