Immigration: Sh*t just got real...

[Miljea]

Wonder how Timmy Wetherspoons is frothing today?

Points based??

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-51550421BBC

"Low-skilled workers would not get visas under post-Brexit immigration plans unveiled by the government.

It is urging employers to "move away" from relying on "cheap labour" from Europe and invest in retaining staff and developing automation technology."

And take on the 6m 'economically inactive' 16-64 year olds in Britain.

Good luck with that.

Gosh, that devil is in the detail, innit?

And, separate but important point, who the chuff is clamouring to get into the UK, now, other than southern Asians uniting families? (Which I completely understand).

@Danetobe I don't support lower numbers of immigration.
A report I heard on radio 4 suggested we could actually see greater numbers of immigration although I don't remember the details.
Other Eu countries have the pints system and we could have had it in the Eu.
Paying people very low wages only props up the rich in my opinion. The poor can't afford to eat out, or hire labour to work on there properties.
I think it's wrong people are paid such a low wage it's hard to exist wherever they come from.
Immigrants are profitable for our country as they work a d pay tax, and buy things and pay tax.

Care workers for example are underpaid and should get the wage of a skilled worker in my opinion. Owners of care homes seem to do very well off the back of treating employees like dirt and paying them very little.

Another report on R4 was farmers union and how they can request they need X amount of workers and exemptions can be made to let them in.

I see it as rich people getting upset there pool of slave labour might be cut down.

There will need to be a new rule in place - if you voted Brexit and you don’t currently work full time, you will be forced to be a care worker or a fruit picker to make your total hours 45 per week.

We will then have another referendum and see what the outcome is.

I don't feel I know enough about it, but I can't stand PP. I do feel though that surely the UK could have done this all along... I moved to Spain from the UK four years ago and have had to repeated demonstrate my income and bank balance to get access to social security, residency and healthcare. What am I missing?

Thanks, and sorry I obvs. misinterpreted what you were implying. It's often difficult to fully understand a typed conversation I find. I heard also a professor (from King college if i remember correctly) predicting that it could indeed mean a higher number of immigrants in the UK.

I also believe 'low skilled' work should be paid at a wage that people are able to live a full and dignified life compared UK average standards, even if that means businesses make a touch less profit. This policy seems too expensive and cumbersome though, and it's not backed up with other measures to make sure that higher wages happen. Like where will the money to pay carers more come from? How will farmers afford to farm? So much more to sort out, I do really hope it works out. I can't cant cant understand (or even identify!) the govs economic strategy.

Does anyone know what is the history with UK not requiring EU citizens to register like in several countries? I'm an EU citizens and When I moved to UK (have moved away) and it baffled me. I feel like these requirements could have been a good addition and maybe affected brexit?
www.google.com/amp/s/europa.eu/youreurope/citizens/residence/documents-formalities/registering-residence/indexamp_en.htm

My issue with the system is the salary requirement. I think it home since only short time ago I was making about £23k in my job that required a degree and then calling it 'unskilled'. My bf is British and we had plans to potentially locate ourselves it UK but this worries me a bit since my skill set is not unique and this might mean the additional paperwork might make me undesired.

Justa
I moved to Spain from the UK four years ago and have had to repeated demonstrate my income and bank balance to get access to social security, residency and healthcare. What am I missing?
The fact that going back to the Middle Ages, the English were against any form of local registration and Identity card
so unlike the rest of the EU, UK immigration was not properly controlled

Rezie
Same answer
it goes back to the middle ages
England / Britain was always the odd one out in Europe

What I read was

Minimum salary of £26,500 unless they have a PHD or a job in a 'shortage occupation'.

So if we are short of care workers then the minimum salary does not apply

Which I think is a shame as care workers should get £27,000. All the care home owners I have ever met are incredibly rich and see owning a care home as a cash cow. They are all more then capable of paying the workers more but it takes away from the massive profits they make

Worse still - the care home 'charities' that pay their top team ££££££ and the care staff a pittance.

Sounds sensible to me

Minimum salary of £26,500 unless they have a PHD or a job in a 'shortage occupation'.

So if we are short of care workers then the minimum salary does not apply

This is for SKILLED workers. Care workers are not skilled. See my earlier post - they are removing the unskilled workers route.

There will be a pilot for short term agricultural workers, but not for any other sector.

My dmil ended her days in a care home in Hertfordshire. It was staffed almost exclusively by Philippino staff. Lovely caring people. How is that going to work?

So what will happen to the migrant workers who work picking crops in places like Lincolnshire? The only positive I can see from this is that care companies won't be able to bring over qualified workers from poor countries to work here earning peanuts as carers. My ex husband has to have carers & nearly every company he has had have brought workers over here, put them in HMO, let them work long hours for terrible wages & then charged them a good proportion of their earnings in rent. These people were very often highly qualified but earned more being carers over here, but were treated badly by their employers.

tonglong wrote:
"What I read was
Minimum salary of £26,500 unless they have a PHD or a job in a 'shortage occupation'."

The government has published lists of shortage occupations in Appendix K to the Immigration Rules www.gov.uk/guidance/immigration-rules/immigration-rules-appendix-k-shortage-occupation-list

I've been through all three lists. There is no mention of care workers in any of them.

A PP may have made this point previously, but it bears repeating.

@titchy The exception for 'shortage occupation' means whatever is classed as that does not require the minimum salary.

When business needs poor people to work like slaves the government makes the exemption for fruit pickers or care workers and they meet the criteria to work here.

The exception for 'shortage occupation' means whatever is classed as that does not require the minimum salary.

Read the pp. it doesn't mean that at all. Minimum salary exemptions are for the SKILLED worker route (and one or two other routes), they are specifically NOT for unskilled workers.

They won't want industries not to try and recruit within the new restrictions first or invest in mechanising, increase the wages, train more local people rather than just employ ready qualified people etc

Wrong way round, 10months isn't enough time to recruit or train people across a wide range of sectors... T.May had a 5 year timescale.
The elderly cannot wait for a change in policy and businesses will fold to the competition if they cannot fulfill orders for Tesco etc.

Mechanisation in say fruit picking or warehousing either takes huge investment first or doesn't yet exist.

I'm certainly not against restrictions in migration, it is not possible for the UK under its present austerity govt to successfully accommodate a city the size of Plymouth each and every year but neither is it sensible to decimate business and social care in the pursuit of ideology.

@ListeningQuietly
That's going by race, not whether they are children of immigrants.
Asian and Chinese are proven to have an average higher IQ than white people, so it makes sense they achieve better marks at GCSE on average.

Asian and Chinese are proven to have an average higher IQ than white people
Link please

@ListeningQuietly

So with the logic you are using (Chinese and Asian children have better average gcse results therefore they must work harder) are you saying that white kids therefore work harder than black kids, as white childrens GCSE results are better on average?

@ListeningQuietly worldpopulationreview.com/countries/average-iq-by-country/

The author floatygoat:

Richard Lynn is a controversial English psychologist and author. He is a former professor emeritus of psychology at Ulster University, having had the title withdrawn by the university in 2018, and assistant editor of the journal Mankind Quarterly, which has been described as a "white supremacist journal"^

The words barge pole, wouldn't touch with, spring to mind....

floatygoat
I'd rather not refer to data collected by a White Supremacist thank you very much
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Richard_Lynn

GCSE data collected by the ONS has been well analysed.
Under achievement by white British boys has nothing to do with race and more to do with poverty

floatygoat several issues with you assertion.
'Race' is not a thing when it comes to humans, we are all of the same race, the human race. Ethnic background and any links between that and intelligence have long been dismissed by all but a few crack pots. (See also the numerous articles following the appointment and resignation of Andrew Sabisky).

Learning is a very, very complex process and has lots of components, its not about just 'working hard' or 'intellect' although if course these things play a part. Parental education, involvement and support all play a part. Good schools are important, London schools are particularly well funded and get great results. Diverse population seems to be beneficial, in areas of the UK where there is little cultural diversity do worse than other areas. Poverty and trauma are particularly damaging to educational outcomes. And if course measures of intelligence have an innate cultural bias.

@floatygoat

I’m not disputing they don’t have higher IQ’s however many of them are very educationally focused. Their parents are very much on top of their studies and the want their children to do well. It seems the cultural norm to be heavily focused on academia