Immigration: Sh*t just got real...

[Miljea]

Wonder how Timmy Wetherspoons is frothing today?

Points based??

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-51550421BBC

"Low-skilled workers would not get visas under post-Brexit immigration plans unveiled by the government.

It is urging employers to "move away" from relying on "cheap labour" from Europe and invest in retaining staff and developing automation technology."

And take on the 6m 'economically inactive' 16-64 year olds in Britain.

Good luck with that.

Gosh, that devil is in the detail, innit?

And, separate but important point, who the chuff is clamouring to get into the UK, now, other than southern Asians uniting families? (Which I completely understand).

50,000 Customs clearance clerks going to be needed by the end of the year
HA HA HA HA HA HA

Now I'm no business owner, but I imagine hiring a habitually lazy person with no work experience or motivation to succeed does not make much sense. I still can't see how this would work on a practical level I'm afraid, though I agree with the overall thrust of the sentiment that life without meaningful work should not be a lifestyle choice funded by the taxpayer. But for me that applies to the middle and upper class too (I'm looking at you, house of 'lords').

Now, I hate to bang on about Denmark, but given you mention education, the benefit system here depends on participation in education or work. So there are unsurprisingly very few people not in work or training. Caveats are that firstly - all education and training is totally free and a lot more readily available in loads of industries. Secondly that education is considered work in terms of state support i.e. students get income support, childcare, housing etc. in the same way that working people are. After two years of no participation in work or training, benefits are cut to the bare minimum. One could cry in frustration at the lack of ambition from the UK gov.

@Danetobe

Great post! I love the sound of the Danish system. I don't believe a decent welfare system must include providing for the idle.

Bloody EU letting a country set up a sensible system

Bloody EU letting a country set up a sensible system

That says it all really. Why should the EU be "letting" a country set their own agenda? The origins of the EU was a common market, not telling countries how to run their affairs.

I think you missed the point.

By a country mile.

The EU doesn't prevent anyone is more accurate language but you read into it what you wanted to .

Corbyn had free handouts for every man and his dog in his manifesto, with no clue where the money was coming from; other than to borrow it.

Did you miss the whole part about higher taxes for higher earners? You know, the bit that guy in the Question Time audience was talking about when he said £80k pa was lower than the average salary?

So, regardless of whether that would fund his plans (and he had plenty of other funding information in the manifesto) I certainly wasn't getting any of his infamous handouts!

Did you miss the whole part about higher taxes for higher earners?

Did you miss the part about them borrowing, even more money, to pay for the handouts?

Bloody EU letting a country set up a sensible system

Yeah I missed the point, obviously. So what was the point?

The point was that issues like that are not regulated by the EU, so leaving/remaining within the EU doesn't affect individual states' ability to do so.

Denmark is a member state of the EU and has set up just such a system, so the UK could also have done so had the gvmt been so inclined.

I love having my jokes explained to me

Hope I got it.

Auld Excellently :-)

I feel stupid, but what is wrong with a points based system?

Listening didn't Steve Wright start off as a customs clerk ? Maybe he could do a quick educational spot on his afternoon show to bring the masses up to speed ?

Pentium
How many points do you give for the low paying jobs that nobody else wants - eg picking cabbages or wiping bottoms ?

Frumpety
I did not know that
but yes, its a semi skilled job that with about seven months of training can be done by most people
however
(a) there are not that many suitable qualified unemployed people in East Kent
(b) there is nowhere in the docks to rebuild their offices
(c) there was never anywhere at either of the tunnels to do customs clearance

There is nothing wrong with a points based system in principle. It will work better for some countries than others. It doesn't make much sense in the UK IMO, partly because the UK managed to suck the most well qualified people from around the EU to work there anyway, certainly more successfully than any other EU country. Obviously the bar to earn points will have to be changed to include fruit pickers and carers. Of course fruit doesn't need to be grown in the UK and older people could be incentivised to live in care homes abroad, but it seems a bit far fetched at the moment, but you never know will cummings at the helm.

There seems to be 3 main problems identified with immigration - paving over the countryside, 'can't get a NHS appointment/school place' type complaints, and 'the native population have become lazy/businesses pay too little' type problems. Add in facts such as - an ageing population and the failure to invest in productivity and infrastructure, and then try and design a points based system that will be an net gain. Good luck with that, especially with the political lightweights and those hard of thinking that occupy the corridors of power.

Until there is an overarching aim as to what people and businesses want out of immigration, allocating points in an effort to rectify some problems will end up worsening others,for example - carers are needed in the shires too look after older people, carers will need housing the countryside will need paving over a bit. Reducing the numbers of carers will help not pave over the countryside, but clearly if move older people end up bed blocking through lack of community support, access to NHS services will worsen.

For my part, I’m pretty sure these problems were not primarily caused by immigration but lack of investment, either in nature, people, or hard infrastructure. Oh and one last thought – countries with points based systems generally have higher immigration.

For all this effort, the British population will also be 'rewarded' by the government by removing their right to move to sunnier countries to enjoy their healthy retirement and their kids right to a cheaper university education in exciting new places meeting interesting people from other countries. bang. head. against. wall.

Squirrel the point is that it is perfectly possible for a country to be in the EU and yet have a contributions based/participations based benefits system. The Netherlands has a similar system.

So the UK did not need to leave the EU in order to get its 'idle classes' to be more active. All it had to do was reform the benefits system so that it didn't offer something for nothing.

I can't believe you actually misunderstood the point.

I can 🙄