Immigration: Sh*t just got real...

[Miljea]

Wonder how Timmy Wetherspoons is frothing today?

Points based??

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-51550421BBC

"Low-skilled workers would not get visas under post-Brexit immigration plans unveiled by the government.

It is urging employers to "move away" from relying on "cheap labour" from Europe and invest in retaining staff and developing automation technology."

And take on the 6m 'economically inactive' 16-64 year olds in Britain.

Good luck with that.

Gosh, that devil is in the detail, innit?

And, separate but important point, who the chuff is clamouring to get into the UK, now, other than southern Asians uniting families? (Which I completely understand).

@Potkettlexx but that's not the policy. Low skilled workers from anywhere won't get visas. That's the new policy. Not, oh well if we need some particular workers, then we will change the rules. Or maybe they will change the rules so we can get the people we need. Perhaps they could call it freedom of movement or some such catchy phrase.

@AutumnRose1 the problem with that is you will have a queue of industries making the same special case pleas, farmers, food processing, hotel chains etc.

But the current proposals don't allow for migrants from lots of sectors. There is a lower salary cap for nurses, but not care workers, which is a huge shortage. It allows some agricultural workers, but less than a 1/5 of the number the NFU estimate are needed. It doesn't allow self-employed people, so there's not a route in for those in the building trades.
Its all well and good saying we shouldn't have low wages, but if people are paid more stuff gets more expensive, are we going to be able to pay more for food, for carers, for child care, for cleaners? It maybe that wages increase but that won't necessarily equate to an increase in the standard of living if labour costs increase essential costs. It's hard to see how we can avoid tax increases.

It would be nice to imagine that low wages got closer to median ones and we moved to a more scandi style economy. Doesn't see to fit BoJos world view, but maybe.

Jason, the Leave voting people in the groups you mention have already started the special pleading.

You do have to wonder what exactly they thought they were voting for? At a guess, to carry on with all the benefits of the EU but not have to pay for them.

Ah yes, the 'cake' argument

And we will continue to be dependent on immigrant labour Peregrina. It's just that they will come from all over the world and will have an equal opportunity to be judged as on their qualifications and ability no mater where they come from.
Going back to the suggestion I had that we used to see more students and school children employed. I'm not bashing the young. I have two teens myself and know of only one boy who has a part time job. When I was young we all had them.
As for Lailaha, god only knows what you are talking about. Can only think you wanted to say something disgusting and saw the title of the thread so used that as an excuses!!

@Jason118

@Jason118

Seems like you’re contradicting what you’re saying regarding the new policy.

No body on this site, despite what the proclaim, fully understands (or even knows about) the intricate details of exactly how it will work.

Logic tells me that like, for example Canada, they will look at the shortfall of skills across the board, across the sectors and decide whether it’ll be on a specific list of ‘needs’ regardless of whether it’s considered low skilled.

What I’m saying is, it’s very unlikely that they wouldn’t make provision for these shortages, despite what some people on this thread are trying to infer.

Makes it much fairer for everyone, particularly those from outside the EU

Yes, that's definitely what Leave voters wanted all along

There doesn't seem to have been much logic applied so far - but maybe that's the headline dog whistle stuff and what actually gets enacted will be different.

As for people coming from all over the world - those people who thought that after Brexit the Muslims would be rounded up and despatched elsewhere are likely to be a tad disappointed.

This is very interesting analysis:

threadreaderapp.com/thread/1230142492663779329.html

I agree Potkettlexx. I don't think the government should start changing the list of preferential professions just yet but should wait to see what will happen. They won't want industries not to try and recruit within the new restrictions first or invest in mechanising, increase the wages, train more local people rather than just employ ready qualified people etc.

No body on this site, despite what the proclaim, fully understands (or even knows about) the intricate details of exactly how it will work

Well that is true because no bodies in the Government know either - it will still depend on EU negotiations and will probably be subject to massive back-pedalling

Points based system is brilliant. Can't wait for it to kick in.

@anotherlittlechicken?

Chicken pie??

I can't wait for the Leavers to start whining that 'This isn't the brexit we voted for', when somehow, they still can't get GP appointments, still can't get their children into the desired school and why has fruit suddenly got so expensive?

I wonder if there are loads of brits willing to pick fruit on a seasonal basis? I'd guess not, so suddenly buying British jam (remember someone suggesting this as a way of supporting uk business aaaaaages ago) will become much more expensive. Without imported labour the farm I worked on as a student will go under; I was the only Brit there! There was plenty of unemployed local brits offered jobs in the farm, most refused to pick fruit for the salary available and others left after only a few hours. I can't see this policy lasting.

Immigration is always an interesting subject to discuss. Who do you count as immigrants ?
People who come here to study, are they included ?
People on short visits who come to do seasonal work and then leave ? People who come to be with family ?
People who come to work and live here but choose not to or are unable to become UK citizens ?
People who work and live here who become UK citizens, but are non-UK born ?
Those seeking asylum or refugee status ?
Everyone included in the population at any given time who is not UK born ?

Who are we talking about ? who is causing the issues mentioned when talking about the burden of immigration ?

Here’s one analysis of the reality of the “economically inactive“ figures (from Sky News yesterday):

“Latest figures from the Office for National Statistics reveal there were 8.48m economically inactive people in the UK aged 16-64 at the end of last year.

However, when those classed as economically inactive are asked whether they do or don't want a job, only 1.87m say they do.

Around 2.6m of those who are economically inactive are students, 2.08m are long-term sick, 1.89m are looking after homes or family members, and 1.12m are already retired.

Labour's shadow health secretary Jon Ashworth claimed Ms Patel was "clearly clueless" for suggesting economically inactive Britons could fill job vacancies, as he criticised the government's immigration plans.

"Not only are these proposals hugely damaging for our economy - making a complete mockery of Tory claims to 'level up' our economy - they're potentially devastating for our health and care sector," he told the BBC.

"Although there may well be exemptions for certain categories of NHS staff, it seems there'll be no exemptions whatsoever for social care staff."

The other pertinent question of course is , who is responsible for mitigating the burden of any population increase ? in other words who is responsible for the infrastructure and services that are described as being under pressure as a direct result of immigration ?

The answer is the government ?

The Twitter thread is interesting Fere. Badically it's a policy for London and the rest of us are fucked.

I doubt if it was as much as a policy for London, as London centric thinking coupled with a lack of knowledge of the bulk of the rest of the UK and personal prejudice which has led to a a cobbled together plan.

If it's such an obvious and reasonable case to make for exceptions in certain industries where we need labour, why is it not part of the policy? Why does government therefore insist on placing extra strain and burden on market sectors that are already at breaking point, by having this blanket policy that assuages the wants of the dog whistle foreigners out brigade, rather than the needs of the country? If someone can explain to me how this policy will help care homes recruit staff, then I'll shut up. Oh, and asserting that 'somehow' or 'the government will do something' as a way out is bollocks.

Selfish curiosity but does anyone know if people from the Republic of Ireland counted in the new points fun or are we still under the CTA stuff of old?
Just musing what would happen to my 17 year old self many moons ago.

This is going to cost the economy big time. I might get slashed for this .... but the companies hiring European workers have been doing it because they couldn't find the workforce locally. Kids complaining about being tired after an hour or two of work and giving up harder jobs within a short time completely. Europeans come here to work, mostly.