If you voted leave, do you realise how much you've been lied to yet...

[JapanNextYear]

....and how angry are you?

indy100.independent.co.uk/article/one-thing-we-learnt-from-boris-johnsons-column-today-and-8-things-we-didnt--WJf7NUCpCNZ

Hmmm, so idealogical then?

Which laws though?

I do find it incredibly naive that people are objecting to the ack of democracy within our monarchy with the house of lords.

With or without Europe, unless you're the wealthiest 5%, who do you think is doing anything isn your interests???

Ah my heart bleeds. All the whiny arse leave voters now saying that they didn't realise that they wouldn't be able to carry on as normal, but just throw the immigrants out, are now crying in to their cheap beer.
You wouldn't make it up.
I hope they and their families get exactly what they deserve..

OK, so we can safely say that's another thing that will in no way be due to TefLeave.

home the UK parliament has an unelected second chamber.

IcedCoffee some of do object to the democracy issues around the monarchy and house of lords ... but maybe we didn't think a thread about the referendum is quite the place to raise it?

Of course it is: you can't criticise the EU legislature in those terms as though it's some great injustice for super-democracy-UK when we have the same set up!

The ones who claim they don't mind they've been blatantly lied to are furious ,of course they are, but they're so obsessed with saving face that they pretend they're perfectly happy thank you very much. So they close their eyes, stick their fingers in their ears and pretend it isn't happening.

You don't think the place to raise the fact that our domestic democracy has clipped wings is within a discussion about the lack of democracy in the EU???

Not to mention the way Parliament itself is elected, which is not proportional to the actual vote.

But it's fine to say everyone else is undemocratic.

It's a fair point, Coffee - it's just that I could imagine a chorus of "derail!!!" if that had got dragged into it

Maybe, since there are so many threads about democracy at the moment, it would be worth a thread of its own?

Yes. I just raised it as a point, not a hijack .

FWIW I passionately believe in PR (even though that would inevitably lead to a govt against my selfish personal interests as a HNW individual) and would like to see an elected second chamber. But I agree that's a derailment of this discussion.

Yea project fear is working. I am scared right now. streamable.com/kzfu

The poorest and most vulnerable have already been hit the hardest that's why they voted Leave

In addition to other posters we have a tory/blair takeover happening in Labour again too, they will be coming out saying they support austerity and it will be more cuts. This will fuel more benefit bashing and "lazy brits can now do EE work" type austerity-hysteria.

Most leave voters have achieved what they set out to achieve... Freedom to be as racist as they like and some bizarre triumph that we 'have our country back' or that we will 'make Britain Great Again'

Remember.... They are Very well informed and didn't take this decision lightly.

m.youtube.com/watch?v=XDdLxTXBaAY

For those Leavers who haven't, please watch/read this analysis of the referendum debate by EU law expert, Professor Michael Dougan:

Dishonesty on an Industrial Scale

& of course, every politician on the remain side is as pure as the driven snow.

You have the advantage of me, MaryPoppins - you obviously know what most leave voters think and I confess I don't

However, unless you're absolutely certain of this, maybe you might want to reconsider insisting the majority of us want "freedom to be as racist as we like"?

& of course, every politician on the remain side is as pure as the driven snow.

Has anyone claimed that?

Ok so there is massive ˈgeneralising going on by remain voters, I thought you were far too intelligent to fall in to that trap!

Statements such as:

Leave voters are all less highly educated so must be' thick'

Many millions of Leave voters had degrees and higher, not nearly as many as Remain but does it matter? Many people leave school and college and go straight in to business and other things, they gained their intelligence in school and college and through life, going to Uni wouldn't have improved their intelligence. Academic achievements in the way of degrees etc is not a guarantee of greater intelligence.

Leave voters are all Racists or Xenophobes

Simply not true as I and many others have already made clear.

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/eu_referendum_2016_/2671677-EU-Referendum-Racists-and-Xenophobes

Oh and if you think "Leave voters aren't all racists but all racists voted leave" is a true statement, again your generalising and not using your higher intelligence to think properly.

Out of 16+ million Remain voters you really think there were no racists at all? It's statistically highly unlikely isn't it! Of course there were racist people who voted Remain, immigration wasn't as strong a reason to them as other reasons so they voted Remain, doesn't make them any less racist!

More Leave voters were racist but they had those views long before we had mass immigration anyway, they had those views all their adult lives.
It's not a who's got more racists Top Trumps game, it's a problem Society as a whole needs to challenge.

Leave voters have believed all the lies and by the Leave campaign and they were going to get £350 million

Come on you must do better. The leave campaign was mainly Gove, Johnson, IDS etc with Farage supporting in his own campaign.

Now considering large numbers of Leave voters are from outside London and the South East and some of them are Labour supporters, do you REALLY think we believed anything the Leave campaign told us? No we didn't, we researched ourselves, I knew the £350 million was wrong, I also knew it wouldn't go all to the NHS, Farage isn't in Government so can promise nowt and the actual Government will allocate the true saving to various sectors. Shock horror, most people realised that!

Just as we didn't believe the lie that the Remain camp made that every Household would be £4300 worse off and other 'Predictions' they made which independent people proved were impossible to predict. But Remain voters aren't shouting about those LIES, LIES!

Picking newspaper headlines, social media idiotic postings and a few idiots interviwed on TV does not prove all Leave voters are the same.

I could go on and on with further examples but it's pointless.

It should never have gone to a referendum in the first place. Most people are so ignorant of the various issues and consequences - political, social, economic, legal, military, financial, strategic - that there is no way that 70% of the population understood what it was they were voting for.

The referendum was an abdication of responsibility from the government.

'Boris' proposal would be the perfect result as far as I'm concerned: free trade, free movement (I think immigration is a good thing) but without the political integration. I'm so worried about what will happen when this deal is agreed and certain people who voted Leave realise this is not the deal they signed up for with regard to immigration. Free movement is definitely not the same as 'take control of our borders'...

Leave voters have believed all the lies and by the Leave campaign and they were going to get £350 million =

Leave voters have believed all the lies by the Leave campaign and they thought they were going to get £350 million

It should never have gone to a referendum in the first place. Most people are so ignorant of the various issues and consequences - political, social, economic, legal, military, financial, strategic - that there is no way that 70% of the population understood what it was they were voting for.

Totally agree.

The referendum was an abdication of responsibility from the government

I think it was a glib, cynical piece of gesture politics that turned real.

I don't regret voting to leave the EU.

To be honest I am rather bored with it all now.