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Brexit

If you voted leave, do you realise how much you've been lied to yet...

209 replies

JapanNextYear · 28/06/2016 07:28

....and how angry are you?

indy100.independent.co.uk/article/one-thing-we-learnt-from-boris-johnsons-column-today-and-8-things-we-didnt--WJf7NUCpCNZ

OP posts:
MotherOfBleach · 28/06/2016 10:51

But to trade in the single market we will be tied with EU, we will have to play by most of their rules. Rules that were in place to protect us.

Unless you know of some other plan? Because Brussels has been pretty clear that they are not going to give us any special arrangements.

We will have proper political accountability in respect of all legislation that affects us - we had that anyway.

TheElementsSong · 28/06/2016 10:54

Also can I just say, "racism has always happened so more racism is no big deal, don't complain" is kind of offensive. The sad fact is that most of us who have experienced racist abuse do keep quiet and just get on with our lives. Plus I'm not sure how that squares with the other response I've seen on MN which is that all the racist incidents have been made up, unless they have been reported to the police.

wowfudge · 28/06/2016 10:54

Surfer your comments are crass and insensitive. My ongoing sadness and anger are because Leavers are deluded that everything goes on as normal and everything will be fine.

My 'issues' are that the country is entering uncharted waters without a paddle, never mind a skipper at the helm. Sadly, 17m people didn't think about this when they voted last week.

How did we manage before the EU? Two world wars, a depression in the 20s. Austerity and rationing plus crippling national debt in the 50s. Yeah, it was all rosy.

wowfudge · 28/06/2016 10:56

Oh and the people who chose to impose their will on the rest of us seem to have some deeply unsavoury views I wish to distance myself from.

homebythesea · 28/06/2016 10:56

There was no accountability in respect of EU law. I'd prefer our own legislature to make laws. If we want to trade with the EU we will make sure our laws comply where they need to.

We will be trading with the single market not in it.

YoungGirlGrowingOld · 28/06/2016 10:56

I didn't vote, but I expect if Italy or Spain need a bailout soon (predicted by some) the public mood will change again. Possibly to one of relief we are out.

If the Remainers are right about economic Armageddon - and I think this constant talking down by "experts" damages the market - then we should never have had a referendum. Were you all protesting against the referendum bill when it went through Parliament? Nope, me neither.

It's happened and ironically Merkel's call for cool heads and less hysteria is the only sensible thing any politician has said since last Thursday.

homebythesea · 28/06/2016 10:59

I'm not saying racism and xenophobia is no big deal. But are we surprised when UKIP got 4m votes in the last election that there are racists and xenophobes that sadly are now feeling more emboldened to articulate their repellant views. I very much regret that immigration formed such a central part of the Leave campaign. There were plenty of other reasons to vote Leave.

SoEverybodyDance · 28/06/2016 11:00

Many leavers I've read/heard talking about it are idealistic. Many have aspirations that are laudable but not grounded in reality. They don't seem to understand economic affects or political processes. They can accept short term market wobbles, but don't understand the relationship between that and their jobs/pensions. They can talk about leaving without understanding how many international agreements underpin our modern life, how long they took to negotiate and how difficult/time consuming they will be to renegotiate. That's why they offer bland, pointless answers such as: "We'll be fine" and "We're in control of our own destiny now."

They claim they've thought about it (and they probably have a bit) but it's clear to the rest of us they haven't thought about it very deeply at all, otherwise they wouldn't take such risks.

And at heart what they want is pretty selfish - to be able to set their own fish quotas, or to have the benefits of EU membership - common market etc but without the migrants.

And they've been lied to, for years, by newspapers like the Daily Mail and the Telegraph and more recently by politicians who should know better.

So I guess all these things mean they are unlikely to be repentant, even though they bloody should be. But, to be honest it's not our job to hold them to account or bludgeon them into admitting they were wrong. I think at this point it's our job to hold our useless politicians to account. I'd rather hold Boris to account than see him elected as prime minister - he's brought about this disaster and he doesn't have the negotiating skills to fix it. Honestly, I think we should exhaust every avenue to make sure he's never allowed in office again...

MotherOfBleach · 28/06/2016 11:01

There was no accountability in respect of EU law.

Yes there was. We had to vote it in. 98% of EU laws passed in Britain.

To trade with the single market we need a trade agreement with it.

We can't just rock up and expect them to keep trading with us because we won.

DecaffCoffeeAndRollupsPlease · 28/06/2016 11:01

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

homebythesea · 28/06/2016 11:01

If the Remainers are right about economic Armageddon - and I think this constant talking down by "experts" damages the market - then we should never have had a referendum. Were you all protesting against the referendum bill when it went through Parliament? Nope, me neither.

This ^^

It was part of the manifesto on the back of which the Givernment was elected

DecaffCoffeeAndRollupsPlease · 28/06/2016 11:04

When you are on the receiving end of those"few incidents" then you can comment on whether that is a bad thing to happen in your own frickin country. Tell you what, you go home!

homebythesea · 28/06/2016 11:05

EU membership requires domestic parliaments to accept EU laws (something that was often ignored by some member nations to be fair eg Italy, but that's another debate!)

decaff you misinterpret me, I don't condone or accept any such behaviour and I'm sorry you have to deal with it. I'm sorry you think I'm a bitch.

homebythesea · 28/06/2016 11:06

Of course we are not going to rock up and expect trade to happen. That's the whole point of the exit negotiations!

MotherOfBleach · 28/06/2016 11:08

EU membership requires domestic parliaments to accept EU laws

Okay, it seems I've misunderstood, I thought our MEPs voted on the laws before domestic parliament had to accept them and that given that we in the top 3 states in the EU, we weilded a fair bit of power.

Clearly I don't understand the EU as well as I thought I did.

Can you explain it to me?

Puzzledandpissedoff · 28/06/2016 11:12

I can't pretend the lies had any impact on me, really - all politicians lie like they breathe, putting their own selfish interests above all else

Which is why I researched the issues for myself and voted accordingly

homebythesea · 28/06/2016 11:13

I think you overestimate the power of MEPs! And UK is not disproportionately represented in the European Parl- numbers are proportionate to population to ensure fairness across all members. UK interests are often different to those of our European partners (or groups of them). It's why I don't think political union is possible- so many different cultures and economic outlooks can't be homogenised. That's why I believe we are better out

TheElementsSong · 28/06/2016 11:13

I expect if Italy or Spain need a bailout soon (predicted by some) the public mood will change again. Possibly to one of relief we are out.

I'm sure a nice well-informed Leaver will be able to correct me if I'm wrong, but wasn't one of Cameron's deals in February that the UK wouldn't have to bailout Eurozone countries? And hasn't that deal been rendered Null and Void because the UK voted to Leave? And haven't a whole load of Leavers been eager to tell us that there is no reason for market or job panic losses because we are still full members of the EU for at least 2 years? And that we are now in no hurry to overthrow the yoke of EU oppression? So, we had better hope Spain or Italy don't need a bailout in the next 2/5/10 years - because the act of voting Leave is what will have dumped us in it Grin!

I'm sure I remember reading that somewhere...
Oh yes, how about in Rupert 'Leave' Murdoch's press Smile
news.sky.com/story/1645255/david-camerons-eu-reform-deal-what-it-means

wowfudge · 28/06/2016 11:13

home as an EU member the UK doesn't just have EU laws imposed on it. It debates and discusses them and is involved in what the content is.

Funny isn't it - it's okay for Leavers to tell Remainers the referendum was democracy in action, yet the European Parliament and other EU institutions are viewed as just imposing things on the UK when they decide collectively in a way which doesn't suit the UK government of the day or sections of the U.K. population.

Fact of the matter is the UK has painted itself as a special case and behaved as though it is superior rather than an equal partner with its fellow EU members. That attitude doesn't win you many friends.

MotherOfBleach · 28/06/2016 11:15

Yes, we have the same amount of power as France and Germany and many common goals i.e shelving TTIP, Turkey etc.

Which laws have passed that have harmed UK interests?

IcedCoffeeToGo · 28/06/2016 11:17

What I'd like to know and no one has been able to answer.

What laws, as in detail, pissed you off?

What do you think the UK looks like post Brexit?

IcedCoffeeToGo · 28/06/2016 11:18

As far as I'm concerned the LEAVE camp either voted out of xenophobia or ideological myths like "Get Britain Great again".

homebythesea · 28/06/2016 11:22

My issue is that the people who decide the content of EU laws are the unelected Commission. I do not believe the European Parliament is an effective check on those laws which then are obliged to be adopted by the domestic legislature.

That and political union as above were my reasons to vote the way I did.

In a post Brexit world people we vote for will legislate according to our interests (which may well chime with other nations, and will need to in respect of trading requirements as I've stated above) and we will have the power to change the legislature if we don't like what they are doing.

homebythesea · 28/06/2016 11:23

It wasn't an issue of "what laws pissed you off". It was the process.

Puzzledandpissedoff · 28/06/2016 11:26

wasn't one of Cameron's deals in February that the UK wouldn't have to bailout Eurozone countries? And hasn't that deal been rendered Null and Void because the UK voted to Leave?

Unfortunately we didn't need the leave vote for that to happen ... don't forget that we negotiated a previous opt out over financing the Greek mess, which the unelected EU commissioners simply tore up when it suited them

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