Gender critical in Ireland

[Muppetryofthepenis]

Just wondering if there are many others out there. Was reading a political pamphlet and it was going on about self ID and how important it is. I just don't agree and think it's so damaging to change the definition of what a woman is. And the definition of a man too, I guess. Sex based rights are under threat in Ireland. Fed up with all the nonsense. Wondering what other Irish mumsnetters think.

I'm so glad you started this thread OP. I thought about it a few times, but was worried I would be hounded off back to the naughty corner (the Feminist board).

It's incredibly frustrating to see how apathetic the government and media are on this issue. Yes, it's very fucking important to woman that we retain our legal protections, language, single sex spaces. No, that is not hateful, nor is it hateful or bigoted to believe in reality.

However a person wishes to dress, or wants to be called is fine by me, I honestly think most people don't actually care these days. But to claim this somehow allows you to change biological sex, and therefore gives you access to women's spaces - hell no! Men cannot become women, we are not simply a feeling in a man's head. The fact that here are male sex offenders in Limerick women's prison, and this is somehow fine and dandy just goes to show how much people are burying their head in the sand.

There is a great quote from Dave Chapelle about this: to what extent should I or anyone else be compelled to participate in your self image.

Self ID law compels us to participate in something that we don't agree with, and that at times actually disadvantages us. And if we complain, we are called unreasonable!

I really hope we can keep this thread going as a place where Irish women can talk/ vent. I know there is the FWR board but it's nice to know I'm not alone, and I'm not going crazy.

Just another thought - I'm actually quite jealous of the debate that's going on in the UK about this. Could you imagine Irish celebrities speaking out about this like JKR? probably not, they would be lambasted.

I have supported and continue to support financially some of the crowdfunders and campaigns over there. It's just nice to feel like I'm doing something useful. And selfishly I know that a win in the UK against Self ID will help us work against it here, but of course it's going to take years to row back on the legal bullshit.

Interestingly, some of the main voices over there are Helen Joyce and Graham Linehan, who are both Irish but based in the UK. I wonder if they will ever turn their attentions to what is going on here?

I was very sorry to miss the Liveline that kicked all this off. Is it online?

If you click on this link and scroll down you can listen back to previous episodes.

www.rte.ie/radio/radio1/liveline/

Also, there are several clips in the 'Most Popular' section on that page.

Oh and another thing (sorry for the morning rants) - having to listen to politicians spout 'trust the science, listen to the science, believe the science' for the last year in relation to Covid and vaccines. Fair enough.

However, when it comes to science like the biological differences between men and women, this is somehow both hateful and bigoted on the one hand, and simultaneously irrelevant and imaginary on the other hand.

So only some science is allowed, and other science is inconvenient and ignored.

Yes I agree. The editorial direction is terrible, and the opportunities for certain names just to grandstand, endless.

I feel there are several journalists there who have no chance to properly air their views or write the pieces they want.

I still read it tho - and still like some great journalists there like Rosita Boland.

Brilliant Rose thank you!

Meanwhile Seanad Leader Regina Doherty gave evidence to a Scottish government Committee on Gender Recognition today.

I read bits of it on Twitter. A lot of ' I don't know' or ' we kept no records'. But best of all - ' there are 9 genders'. Thanks Regina. I've often wondered. But then I've often wondered how a muppet like you ever got elected.

I don't do ' I'm ashamed to be Irish'. But I might have to reconsider if she gets back into Dáil Eireann!

Graham Linehan went on a speaking tour with Colm O Gorman during Repeal. The latter won't speak to him now of course. My ex cancelled Amnesty membership over O Gormans support for denying feminists access to media and political representation. It would be great to get Graham and Helen back over for a meeting ?

Hopefully Glinner will read this thread and come and help us. Come on Glinner! I wrote to a politician yesterday detailing my concerns and as yet have received no reply. I'm 41, I'm very tired and angry and I'm very stubborn. They can deal with that as they will. Think I'm going to write to another even more useless guy tomorrow - a TD who specialises in smiling in local newspapers and doing fuck all of import.

I suggest everyone messaging the local councillors and TDs and questioning them.

I didn't look very hard, but there was no immediately obvious reporting in the IT about the absolutely horrific performance of Doherty. What an exhibition.

I've had a SO for the ICCL since 2005, at least. It has to go, I regret to say.

FFS really? Are there any of them that aren't a huge fucking disappointment. The only one I have heard speak out about this is Sharon Keoghan, and I don't agree with her on many things, but was grateful she actually said something.

I emailed several of my local councillors and TDs over the last year or so and got......tumbleweeds. Literally no response, from any of them. So frustrating.

I wonder if anyone would be interested in doing a similar campaign of sending Helen Joyce's book Trans to politicians in Ireland, like they did in the UK a while ago? Or maybe they would just bin it on sight...

I was thinking recently that part of the reason politicians are resolutely burying their head in the sand over this, is that they would have to admit that they enacted legislation that was at best, misguided, and at worst, harmful. It's admitting they can't do their job properly and don't actually care about a huge percentage of the electorate.

What politician is going to want to admit that? They are just saving face by ignoring the reality of Self ID and hoping it goes away.

Also just read this morning that they want to try and reduce the voting age to 16, if that happens they will all be pandering to the younger people with whatever nonsense is trendy. It's far easier to fool young people with placating bollocks than it is people who have been through a few dozen elections and know the waffly bullshit is just that - waffly bullshit.

Have a listen to the Gender: A Wider Lens podcast. I find it really fascinating.

Helen Joyce has written about this today

I'm worried about how little talk about this is happening. Or maybe is just this part of the country that doesn't know much and doesn't care much - west
I follow US and UK because I know that rather sooner than later it will be the same here, but everybody around me seems totally unaware.
There's very little discussion about this, most of the times I start it and I avoid doing it anymore as I'm afraid I sound obsessed.
My girls, late teens - early twenties, don't seem to be worried at all

The male child sex offender is part of the Official Dail Record. Thats about as permanent a record as any Irish politician can get.

The Dail record clearly details that a male was being held in the Womans Prison.
www.oireachtas.ie/en/debates/question/2019-09-06/553/

Any male child sex offender with cosmetic surgery or not and no GRC will be held in the Mens Prison

The second one currently(?) on trial is also record in the Dail Record as being placed in the Womens Prison.

The legislation which was passed was based off "post radical cosmetic surgery, infertile male". Appart from specifclic sexual offences it ignoring that the male still has a male body and a female still has a female body.

Are "they" asking that a 16 year old who voted also serves on a jury? A jury of 16 year olds deciding on a murder case? Or is it all the rights with none of the responsibility?

yeah and she acknowledged that there is suspicion that the prisoners had only changed their gender to get into women's prison! It's left to prison wardens to ensure women will be safe! WTAF?!?

I suspect that the activist community will be offering the usual to her now. No matter how hard you try to keep them on side, you're one word away from going on The List.

The letters page in the Sunday Independent is a joy to behold . They gave over a page to letters responding to an article by Eilis O Hanlon which was critical of extreme gender ideology. I feel the dam is breaking if only because people are not being censored for supporting women and children's rights.

Seen a few Twitter comments about how shocking the Sunday Independent is for "showcasing " this bigotry and how it was "Co-ordinated" correspondence and how the names of the anonymous writers should be published.
Same old hyperbolic reaction to people saying there needs to be more discussion about the consequences of self-ID for women.
More people will see it. More sunlight on this stuff.