Gender critical in Ireland

[Muppetryofthepenis]

Just wondering if there are many others out there. Was reading a political pamphlet and it was going on about self ID and how important it is. I just don't agree and think it's so damaging to change the definition of what a woman is. And the definition of a man too, I guess. Sex based rights are under threat in Ireland. Fed up with all the nonsense. Wondering what other Irish mumsnetters think.

It simply must be taught in schools….otherwise how else will children know that they have a gender identity.
In real life now that I no longer live in South Dublin and have gone back to the sticks no one supports this.
It’s all sound bites and nonsense mantras from politicians. We need to make sure every politician knows how out of touch they are. It’s the backbenchers that need to hear how women feel about this.
I don’t have daughters only sons so they won’t be as impacted by the fallout when it comes. I actually don’t want my sons to think that a list of gender stereotypes is how to define whether they are male or female.

@Crunchingleaf as a mum of three primary school girls it's petrifying & chilling.

I was chatting with work colleagues about this recently. I wouldn't normally bring something like this up in the workplace but it evolved from chat about the Burke clan.
I was really delighted that not one single person supported gender identity being pushed in schools and also how people were expected to accept gender identity even if they didn't believe in it. This included staff who are in their early 20s and a staff member who is gay. They all thought the Burke's were as mad as hatters though 😁
I think that the comments by Ciara Kelly that politicians are completely out of touch with parents on this issue are true.
But they seem determined to plough on.

Self ID is bullshit. Every X Bloggs can identify as whatever they want! Absurd and laughable. I accept the existence of gender dysphoria as a mental disorder, hence it can be diagnosed and treated accordingly. Self ID is mostly social contagion. It's not cool to be straight or gay anymore. Also, I can understand it more in adolescent girls and I see it more like a negation of femininity than a wish to become a man. It is, of course, my opinion and it's a vast subject

I live far from the "progressive" cities, and I can tell you that a lot of people don't have any idea about this happenings. I spoke with a friend few weeks ago, telling her about what I heard/read/saw is going on in USA, Canada, Scotland. here.... her eyes got close to the size of the dinner plate and exclaimed Fuck right off! you're jokin' me!

I'm in Dublin and there are plenty of people here haven't a clue about this or about Self-ID legislation etc etc. There are also plenty who know about it and just do not buy it. This isn't a Dublin thing (or a South Dublin thing, or a big city thing). Same with the politicians (except they all know), it isn't just the politicians from the cities. I reckon they all know, some are true believers and the rest are morally bankrupt cowards waiting to see which way the wind blows.

Absolutely brilliant points made there, religious ideology has been replaced by trans ideology by those in power in a way to make themselves and this country look progressive. They are a disgrace.
I am not religious but I am glad the Muslim community are speaking out along with the catholic community, hopefully the more groups that speak out will allow a sensible debate.

I was in a pub in Kerry watching TV and the Pope was on. He was visiting Dublin , 2017 iirc?

' This Pope is a bit of an improvement I think ' said the bar manager. I agreed that he seemed a bit more liberal than Benedict anyway.

'Case of having to be , cos the world's gone fecking mad' said the only other customer , a guy about 40. ' I mean if you're gay or straight, crack on . But chopping your bits off is disgusting!'

The manager , a huge man in his 60s , then said : ' I have a lot of compassion for those people. We can't know how it feels to wake up every morning thinking you're in the wrong body'

At the time I was quite touched that this old GAA guy had such tolerance and understanding. So much for rural stereotypes. But of course most people are basically kind and decent. And it is this compassion which the TRA fanatics have weaponised and turned against their benefactors.

I felt proud to be Irish that day. Now I feel like a mug.

And it is this compassion which the TRA fanatics have weaponised and turned against their benefactors.

I think that's the baleful and inevitable effect of their "no debate" stance. They have pushed too far without formulating any sensible argument that compels general agreement. Since they won't engage with any discussion, they don't understand that they have not won hearts and minds and have gone so far that the normal live and let live tolerance has been completely worn out.

Yes @PleasantBirthday and that little incident was five years ago. There's been a lot of vile abuse , doxxing and cancelling since then.

I doubt the kindly Kerryman would be so indulgent if he saw his granddaughter being flattened on the football field by some great bald oaf.

Concussion conference
Talking about the football field...this concussion conference is coming up.There is a large and growing body of evidence of the long to risks following concussion and sporting bodies are starting to wake up to the need to mitigate risks (and protect themselves from being sued). Women and girls (as usual) are vastly underrepresented in the research (not that they are not affected just they haven't been studied) but the evidence that is there shows they are at far greater risk, take longer to recover and hormonal factors such as the use of hormonal contraceptives impact recovery. I assume that the evidence that is there is from single sex sports and where contact with another player led to the injury both were female. Can you imagine what that research and the harms will look like in the future if biological males are competing against women? Of course it will be difficult to quantify as even in health research these days we often cannot name a male as a male if they say they are not.

Leaving aside the gender issue, all involved in sports for women and girls should be vigilant for signs of concussion in players. Unfortunately, even in low division underage sports I've seen children encouraged to stay on a pitch who should have been taken off by the adults...the health risks of this behaviour are much greater if a girl is involved.

Here's a new interview with academic Colette Colfer by Gerry O'Neill, on concepts around supposed "gender identity":

The presenter linked to this piece in his own newsletter post about the interview:

louiseroseingrave.substack.com/p/irish-muslims-tackle-irelands-inclusion

And The Irish Times education editor Carl O'Brien offered this on Saturday:

www.irishtimes.com/ireland/education/2023/03/11/culture-wars-play-out-in-classrooms-across-ireland/

I haven't had a chance to listen to the Colette Colfer interview yet but regarding the Times article it looks like there are a lot of people starting to get very nervous that people are starting to wake up to the way this ideology is being pushed.
I noted though that there was no mention that Muslim groups have also critised the teaching of gender identity. While the language in the Times article is factual and unbiased on this occasion I think it is easier to put those who object into the category of Catholic Church and Enoch Burke. The objections come from a wide range of people from atheists, members of the LGB community, people involved in sports and ordinary parents. Most noticeably though, the objections of the Muslim schools have been mentioned absolutely nowhere in Irish MSM, despite the fact that the objections of the Catholic Church were widely reported and commented on. The Muslim population are however a minority population the majority of whom are 1st and 2nd generation immigrants. It doesn't suit perhaps a left leaning liberal paper such as the Times to be seen to dismiss their objections.
Though I must acknowledge that the above article is quite good for the Times.

*criticised not critised

I think Carl certainly tried to stay factual but I noticed phrases like "assigned at birth" which isn't factual and is extremely ideological. I think that may have been from the expert but it definitely shows capture.

That's true.
Also in my above post I said
"The objections come from a wide range of people from atheists, members of the LGB community, people involved in sports and ordinary parents."
I was reading it back and I feel I should clarify that atheists, members of the LGB community and people involved in sports can also fall into the category of "ordinary parents" and vice versa 😂.

For sure! But I know what you mean: people who aren't involved in anything aren't aren't usually involved in a committee or letter writing or setting policies or safeguarding.

Steve Thompson won the Rugby World Cup with England in 2003. Now he can't remember anything about it. Early onset dementia and still in his 40s afaik.

Bloody terrifying. The rugby authorities are very aware of the dangers now. And it's a time bomb - a Welsh international is suing his national Union.
There's no way mixed sex rugby will be allowed. Time the GAA woke up.

I didn't see that. It jumped out at me that the SPHE terminology has been changed and talks about GI that "may or may not correspond with the sex registered at birth" and the only time I noticed "assigned at birth" was in the definition of "cisgender", a term now removed from the glossary. Even there, he didn't use it, he reported that it had been used in a definition and that that section is now removed from the materials.

A key problem as I see it, is that there's an assumption that gender identity is real and that everyone has one. The definition given is "a person's felt internal and individual experience of gender, which may or may not correspond with the sex registered at birth" which implies that we all have one which either aligns or doesn't with our sex. The article ends by saying that schools need to offer "something that is solid and of substance" but they haven't even considered that GI is not either of those things. It is in the heads of some people. That's the antithesis of "solid and of substance".

Eilis OHanlon article

I've tried to post an offline copy of Eilis O'Hanlons article from the indo today. Common sense at its finest.
Hopefully it works to read without a subscription. Don't know how to archive articles!

One archive site is archive.today, if you go there and paste in the article address, a copy of the page will be saved, or displayed if it has been saved already. The website 12ft.io is another useful site to know.

British columnist Ella Whelan had this piece about the situation in Ireland today:

www.spiked-online.com/2023/03/12/trans-dogma-has-captured-ireland/

@PleasantBirthday - Mumsnet auto-hides posts with direct links to certain archive.today addresses, posting a non-linking address can be better.

Thanks @Genesis1v27 Though I'm a bit confused as to what a non-linking address is sorry
Eilis O'Hanlon article

Just mean an address that is not a link and has to be copied to open, rather than clicked. Sometimes just removing the http prefix does this, e.g.

independent.ie/opinion/dont-like-the-transgender-culture-war-leo-then-stop-fighting-it-42381616.html

It is only relevant when posting certain links, though, not all the time.

Anyway, Eilis O'Hanlon is exactly right about the playbook; those who question what politicians are doing (influenced by lobbyists, activists and their backers, not voters) gets accused of starting a "culture war," or importing one from outside, not heard. She is too generous to Micheál Martin, though, he is as uninterested in "all voices" as Varadkar and the rest.

I just want to highlight these pieces again, in particular read the part in the first about the OECD Over the Rainbow report:

louiseroseingrave.substack.com/p/irish-muslims-tackle-irelands-inclusion

louiseroseingrave.substack.com/p/civil-servants-scrambled-to-fund

Thanks for that - great article. I think (hope) that this will be the straw that breaks the camels back in terms of this issue being discussed publicly.

'All voices must be heard'...except the ones that disagree apparently - they are problematic.

'Why not give them the information and facts?'...except those 'facts' are bullshit and not supported by scientific evidence or even common sense.

And Leo wants to 'avoid the kind of culture wars that we’ve seen in other countries around the trans issue' - how fucking arrogant of him to assume that we don't need to have any kind of debate on the issue. Irish people should just shut up and do what they are told. Arsehole.