90% of ICU patients admitted with COVID haven't been vaccinated.

[Desithebulldog]

Been listening to the news and they've said that 90% of the patients admitted to ICU with COVID haven't been vaccinated. For each patient admitted they are denying 10 other patients who need surgery their ICU beds. So currently (I'm sure there are more) there are 1,000 patients holding up 10,000 operations. I find this absolutely gobsmacking. Why, why, why would people not get vaccinated to help the NHS? They are on their knees and need all the help they can get. I know it's a personal choice but why are all the non-believers making it so hard for others to get a much needed operation? I just don't get it.

I agree Crunchy it should be broken down further. But as I said upthread, we don't operate a system of the deserving or undeserving ill. We don't withhold treatment for a new illness or condition on account of a person already being ill or leading a very unhealthy /dangerous lifestyle.

It would be useful for us to have that data made very public, to hammer home to those most at risk that they need o be more careful than the average person and where possible that they should take steps to address/reverse their risk factors.

It might be a wake up call for those who are already very obese or sliding into obesity, but there is not much anyone can do about their ethnicity or for example the fact that they already have diabetes or kidney problems or old age.

But once the data is out there and we are all very clear on it, what we can do is go on a very targeted public campaign to reach the people most at risk who still remain steadfastly unvaccinated.

If you don't like FullFact then this is the report with the data they use from ICNARC. Annoyingly the data is from May to July 2021, but still much more useful than reports which include data from the January 2021 peak when nobody was double vaxxed. Also it has splits by age, showing very clearly what we knew already, that Covid ICU patients skew much younger than Covid hospitalisations and deaths.
www.icnarc.org/DataServices/Attachments/Download/f87422d2-5f54-ec11-9139-00505601089b

@RampantIvy ahh, thank you! Those are not words I often hear - you’ve started my morning with a smile!

@Beachcomber I should apologise too, I have a habit of getting really narky.

It is a really good thing that we all have different viewpoints (…I think…although I’m very opposed to what I see as a ‘survival of the fittest’ type scenario…) if we channel them in a positive direction, listen to each other and are constructive.

But when the hospitals are heading for an emergency situation? I want to know that my loved ones, my children, everyone can access adequate care if they are in need. Without the NHS I wouldn’t have my children, they wouldn’t have been conceived - and they wouldn’t have been safely delivered. And several family members close to me wouldn’t be alive today without them.

So I think we’ve just got to stick with the plan - because it IS the consensus of medical thought worldwide, and we don’t have the luxury of time for a better one.

Ffs @churchofthepoisonmind those going on about 35% which I'd hospital admissions not ICU used full facts. Clearly it is OK if it suits your agenda.
I only pulled up he Full Facts Graphic as it is clear. I have already shared ICNAR data for ICU patients which is identical as a PP said.

Thank you at @PassingByAndThoughtIdDropIn.
I had shared thus previously on the thread without links
Hysterical how people like Full Facts if it serves to minimise. Ie 35% wow that is less thsn 90% who gives a toss if one is hospital admissions and one ECMO..
Than when you share a graphic from the same Fill Facts article with correct ICU figures people want to rubbish it.

@CrunchyCarrot ICNAR does to a degree this I believe but the latest report in December only cover up to July.
It certainly has charts for BMI and age broken down vaccinated, single dose and double vaxxed.

@PassingByAndThoughtIdDropIn ICNARC reports are updated weekly so more recent data is available:

www.icnarc.org/our-audit/audits/cmp/reports

I am pretty sure that the 3rd December report only goes up to July for vaccinated/ unvaccinated.

Yes @bumbleymummy the 3rd December is the latest and that is the one shared by me and @PassingByAndThoughtIdDropIn

Sorry when you said Dec up to July, I thought you meant last year and it was a link to an older report.

The report dated 3rd December 2021 which is the latest one only has figure for vaccinated/unvaccinated from May to July 2021.

metro.co.uk/2021/12/08/lorraine-dr-hilary-jones-sparks-over-1000-ofcom-complaints-over-hospital-stats-15738736/?ito=article.mweb.share.top.twitter

It was a blatant lie!

@ivykaty44

I’d like to ask unvaccinated people, who have chosen not to have the vaccination how they’d feel about taking up an ICU bed and potentially preventing 10 lifesaving operations? Causing others to potential death or worsening outcomes

How do they justify this

I feel fine about it. Mostly because the chances of me needing an ICU bed for covid are extremely low, given that I'm young and healthy and haven't needed a hospital bed for years. I do pay taxes though like everyone else should I need one. How do you feel about obese people taking up hospital beds? Alcoholics? Smokers?

Stop blaming the unvaxxed. Blame the Gov for mismanaging the NHS for years!

@Youhavesomethinginyourteeth yes it would appear they confused hospital admissions with ECMO figures.
However critical care figures were running at 70% unvaccinated in May to July.
Later figures will be very interesting.

Any idea when to expect them? Is it 6 monthly?

Lets not forget the scientists have agendas too. They want the government to keep funding their research, their institutions, their data programmes. A lot of scientific published research is not as rigorous or robust as some posters seem to think.

Let us not forget that UK scientists have done wonderful work during the pandemic.

@2022HereWeCome

Lets not forget the scientists have agendas too. They want the government to keep funding their research, their institutions, their data programmes. A lot of scientific published research is not as rigorous or robust as some posters seem to think.

Oh well, since EVERYONE has an agenda let’s just throw out all the guidance and do whatever you want then.

@2022HereWeCome

Lets not forget the scientists have agendas too. They want the government to keep funding their research, their institutions, their data programmes. A lot of scientific published research is not as rigorous or robust as some posters seem to think.

We’d be in very bad shape without vaccines.

@Beadebaser

Thank you but no need to apologise - we're just chewing the fat on the internet. I'm pretty narky too so apologies if I've been so to you!

How do you feel about obese people taking up hospital beds? Alcoholics? Smokers?

Yawn. Those activities in themselves aren't contagious.

They still take up resources though.

@RampantIvy

How do you feel about obese people taking up hospital beds? Alcoholics? Smokers?

Yawn. Those activities in themselves aren't contagious.

We're talking about taking up beds though. That was literally the question ivykaty44 asked.

I don't know why at the beginning of the pandemic people weren't encouraged to:

a) taking vitamin D, it was thought to be a factor in how ill people got with Covid. Even if it wasn't, it's still cheap and easy to do with no negative side effects and other benefits.

b) maintain a healthy weight.

Both things would protect, not only becoming ill with Covid but many other issues that would make it likely you would be hospitalised.

Notice also I said 'encourage'. I would never suggest that people who ignored this advice be denied hospital treatment.

There's 7.9 billion people on this planet and 5 million recorded covid deaths and we all know the data has been exaggerated so it's probably no way near that number. It's public knowledge that there is a 99.9% recovery rate. I and my partner have not been vaccinated and don't plan to so how come over the 2 years this has been going on neither of us has been poorly no cough no cold nothing. We are both carers although not for much longer yet we haven't had one client get sick or go to hospital. Maybe it high time people start taking responsibility for their own health I don't want the weight of the world's health on my shoulders. I don't have anything against people who have had the jab I do however have a problem with people picking on the unvaccinated it's my body and I decide what I put in it

When these vaccines were first announced, there were some claims that they would prevent people catching Covid at all (I can't be arsed to Google but I am certain I heard some claim this).
Then when it became clear that this was not the case, that claim shifted to reduced the chance of you catching or passing on the virus.
I don't know the precise figures but it is clear now that both vaccinated are catching and spreading on this virus. Thus the claim that the unvaccinated represent a danger to others has kind of died down a bit as it sounds rather silly given vaccine does not prevent infection.
Thus the narrative now has become "the non-vaccinated will take up hospital beds." This is trending all over social media (and let's also remember that this trending DOES NOT happen by accident).
Yet think about it. This virus is a much bigger risk to the very old (70+) and the clinically vulnerable. Both these groups have extremely high take-up rates of the vaccination (by necessity) which in theory should prevent them blocking beds in ICU.
That just leaves unvaccinated, healthy people in younger age groups whose risk of being hospitalised or killed from this virus is extremely low (it is miniscule when one gets below 50 - the government's own figures support this).
Thus anybody who says the non-vaccinated are blocking ICU beds (on a major scale) or risking the "NHS being overwhelmed" are either lying or are seriously misinformed. It's bullshit, basically.