90% of ICU patients admitted with COVID haven't been vaccinated.

[Desithebulldog]

Been listening to the news and they've said that 90% of the patients admitted to ICU with COVID haven't been vaccinated. For each patient admitted they are denying 10 other patients who need surgery their ICU beds. So currently (I'm sure there are more) there are 1,000 patients holding up 10,000 operations. I find this absolutely gobsmacking. Why, why, why would people not get vaccinated to help the NHS? They are on their knees and need all the help they can get. I know it's a personal choice but why are all the non-believers making it so hard for others to get a much needed operation? I just don't get it.

Talking of questioning the science, professor lockdown is saying we may need more lockdowns: www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10287271/Neil-Ferguson-warns-lockdown-needed-stop-Omicron-overwhelming-NHS.html
I think we should definitely go along with this guy as every single one of his forecasts has been bang on the money so far!

@Beachcomber that’s an assumption. They are not. You will have more sensible and less sensible people.

Rudeness is coming from the anti science and pro science sides.

@churchofthepoisonmind

As pp observed, the “anti-vaxxers” on social media (and very much MN) are not out and proud. They are stealthy. When the vaccination programme first started there were no end of faux innocent posts along the lines of, “I’m not anti-vaccine but I’m just worried that studies have shown that they lead to infertility/instantaneous death” . They so often had the same posting style that it was pretty obvious that they were all out of the same stable.

Vaccines are not 100% effective. That’s an absolute pisser. But at the moment they’re the best weapon we have. I’m not really seeing any other weapons at all. I was speaking with a health professional (yep, a real one!) and they said once you strip out the vaccinated very elderly, everyone who was in the hospital with covid was unvaccinated, and how very frustrating this was.

@churchofthepoisonmind that’s helpful isn’t it. Let’s completely dismiss what he says and assume he never gets it right. Let’s encourage people to break guidelines so they spread Covid about and the NHS collapses. Good idea.

And have a good snigger while people are critical in ICU.

Great that you find it amusing @bumbleymummy

Not concerned and normal parents who question vaccine effectiveness / the need to vaccinate children

On the contrary, these are entirely run-of-the-mill anti-vaxxer positions.

A descriptive term is not a slur.

@Beadebaser - The reason you feel there is a consensus is largely because alternative viewpoints are too often being censored. A good example of this is how Ofcom have instructed the BBC not to cover anything that might impact government messaging.

The lack of honesty and transparency have been a real problem throughout. We've had government experts wildly over-predicting hospitilisation/death rates and blatantly presenting graphs to the general public that they know are innacurate and out of date. We also know that pharmaceuticals are not renowned for their ethical behavior. To be honest, I am quite surprised that so many people are willing to put unquestioning, blind faith in them.

@DottyHarmer

As pp observed, the “anti-vaxxers” on social media (and very much MN) are not out and proud. They are stealthy. When the vaccination programme first started there were no end of faux innocent posts along the lines of, “I’m not anti-vaccine but I’m just worried that studies have shown that they lead to infertility/instantaneous death” . They so often had the same posting style that it was pretty obvious that they were all out of the same stable.

Vaccines are not 100% effective. That’s an absolute pisser. But at the moment they’re the best weapon we have. I’m not really seeing any other weapons at all. I was speaking with a health professional (yep, a real one!) and they said once you strip out the vaccinated very elderly, everyone who was in the hospital with covid was unvaccinated, and how very frustrating this was.

Precisely this. It seems to have bothered some people last night that I used the term 'playbook', and there was an assumption that I meant the term to apply to a specific poster. But in fact it isn't about any single person - it's the eternal rhythm of anti-vaxxers online, as they 'begin, and cease, and then again begin' to sow doubt and anxiety, to feed a climate of fear and mistrust.

It has been happening for as long as the internet has been a publicly available thing.

And me 😳

@SLH2003slh

Suggestions like alternatives to lockdowns by shielding the more vulnerable (we didn’t do a good job of protecting the elderly especially in nursing homes) and more consideration given to natural immunity, which is being recognised in some places for a period of time but not everywhere.
Upholding the JCVI recommendation for not vaccinating healthy kids.
There are many differing views across many issues. We should be able to discuss things openly.

@Beadebaser yeah, I’m laughing at people in icu not Neil Fergusson’s crappy track record on predictions It’s ok to recognise people don’t get things right all the time and learn from their mistakes. I’m not sure it’s particularly helpful to keep scaring people about the nhs being overwhelmed when just the other day SJ confirmed that so far there have been 0 hospitalisations from covid in the U.K.

Sorry - zero hospitalisation from omicron!

I am guessing the poor poster who works in ICU- forgotten her name-has gone off to call more angry people to tell them they won't be getting beds.

While posters on here- call them what you want-congratulate themselves on their general fitness, low BMIs, fantastic immunity and non-infectious families who would never, ever give Covid to anyone else.

@CaliforniaDrumming

I am guessing the poor poster who works in ICU- forgotten her name-has gone off to call more angry people to tell them they won't be getting beds.

While posters on here- call them what you want-congratulate themselves on their general fitness, low BMIs, fantastic immunity and non-infectious families who would never, ever give Covid to anyone else.

I'm surprised that people don't seem to understand how callous their posts appear - when relatively young, unvaccinated people die from Covid, it is a tragedy.

There is no funny side.

There is no justification for using their deaths to make a cheap point on a thread.

These are families being devastated by totally avoidable losses.

(N.B. I am not saying that the deaths of older people or vaccinated CEV people are somehow unimportant or not sad, but by their very nature, such deaths are not as unexpected, random, or perceptibly preventable as those of unvaccinated younger individuals.)

@CaliforniaDrumming - A situation that sadly is likely to get a lot worse when the vaccine mandates for NHS staff are brought in next year.

While posters on here- call them what you want-congratulate themselves on their general fitness, low BMIs, fantastic immunity and non-infectious families who would never, ever give Covid to anyone else.

And I’m sure there are plenty of posters on here who are unfit, have high BMIs, drink, smoke and are congratulating themselves on having their vaccine because that means they’ll never put any pressure on the NHS.

@Innocenta and yet you seem to object to my suggestion that we should have a campaign targeted at younger people with high BMIs who are still high risk and make up a significant number of hospitalisations.

Younger unvaccinated people.

[quote bumbleymummy]@Innocenta and yet you seem to object to my suggestion that we should have a campaign targeted at younger people with high BMIs who are still high risk and make up a significant number of hospitalisations.[/quote]
Please cite the post where I wrote about this alleged objection.

@DottyHarmer

As pp observed, the “anti-vaxxers” on social media (and very much MN) are not out and proud. They are stealthy. When the vaccination programme first started there were no end of faux innocent posts along the lines of, “I’m not anti-vaccine but I’m just worried that studies have shown that they lead to infertility/instantaneous death” . They so often had the same posting style that it was pretty obvious that they were all out of the same stable.

Vaccines are not 100% effective. That’s an absolute pisser. But at the moment they’re the best weapon we have. I’m not really seeing any other weapons at all. I was speaking with a health professional (yep, a real one!) and they said once you strip out the vaccinated very elderly, everyone who was in the hospital with covid was unvaccinated, and how very frustrating this was.

Absolutely this. Vaccines are the best weapon we have at the moment- maybe this might change later- short of getting millions of obese people to lose weight overnight, which we know is not happening.

[quote nojudgementhere]@CaliforniaDrumming - A situation that sadly is likely to get a lot worse when the vaccine mandates for NHS staff are brought in next year.[/quote]
Yes, I sincerely hope they reverse that one.

A HoL committee found that there wasn’t sufficient evidence to support it.

www.bmj.com/content/375/bmj.n2957

@Innocenta well you’ve spent considerable time dismissing me and my opinions as ‘antivaxx’ so are you now saying that you agree with me?

@bumbleymummy that’s excellent. I hope it has some traction and it’s reversed. And care workers can have their jobs back too, if they even want them now.