90% of ICU patients admitted with COVID haven't been vaccinated.

[Desithebulldog]

Been listening to the news and they've said that 90% of the patients admitted to ICU with COVID haven't been vaccinated. For each patient admitted they are denying 10 other patients who need surgery their ICU beds. So currently (I'm sure there are more) there are 1,000 patients holding up 10,000 operations. I find this absolutely gobsmacking. Why, why, why would people not get vaccinated to help the NHS? They are on their knees and need all the help they can get. I know it's a personal choice but why are all the non-believers making it so hard for others to get a much needed operation? I just don't get it.

@Derbee no it's not because everyone is different, everyone has different health issues, and medical needs and it's people like you with unhelpful digs like that which are part of the problem with the way the country is being divided by this issue. If there are concerns people need to consult their own doctors and own specialists who know their medical history, not rely on the widely reported information or people trying to guilt-trip them to get jabbed on mumsnet. Your not their doctor or specialist.

@wildchild554 but the poster had obviously been medically cleared to have an AZ vaccine. She then decided that because advice was that it was preferable to have Moderna or Pfizer, she didn’t want a second dose of AZ.

As I’ve said multiple times, that’s her choice. But to say advice isn’t there, is misleading.

@Derbee if you read it again she has had no advice from medical professionals which is what she needed.

@ivykaty44

I’d like to ask unvaccinated people, who have chosen not to have the vaccination how they’d feel about taking up an ICU bed and potentially preventing 10 lifesaving operations? Causing others to potential death or worsening outcomes

How do they justify this

Me too. Especially as they may have already spread the virus to vulnerable others before going into hospital, potentially compounding the problem. 🙄

@Beadebaser

And because people are desperate right now, because they WANT to hear that they can get their freedom back, because no one wants masks, restrictions, mandates etc - it is causing division, confusion and negative behaviour at a time when we need cohesion.

The voice of reason - absolutely this.

Not according to the latest publication from Gateshead Health Authority who admit that the majority of patients in their critical care unit are double vaccinated.

Ive heard these figures are incorrect and its actually 35% of non vaccinated people in hospital are non vaccinated.
I know quite a few people are double vaccinated and boosted who have been very poorly with covid.

@Barney60

Ive heard these figures are incorrect and its actually 35% of non vaccinated people in hospital are non vaccinated. I know quite a few people are double vaccinated and boosted who have been very poorly with covid.

You’ve heard that 35% of non vaccinated people in hospital are non vaccinated? Well that seems good enough for me. FFS

I know what you meant @Barney60. I think most readers will too.

ffs Derbee
Ive heard these figures are incorrect and its actually 35% of non vaccinated people in hospital. Is what ists meant to say obvs.
Doesnt take much working, am tired, out just in from 12 hour shift in a hospital!

Thank you Bumbleymummy.

ve heard these figures are incorrect and its actually 35% of non vaccinated people in hospital are non vaccinated.
Yet again not what this thread is about.
If these are recent figures for admissions is kind of proves vaccines still help keep you out of hospital as 80% have been vaccinated but only 65% are in hospital.
Most of these admissions I suspect are the elderly who are not suitable for Critical Care.

@Beadebaser

“science (on vaccine waning, virus mutation, natural immunity, breakthrough infections, herd immunity or lack of and vaccine adverse events) does not support mass vaccination as being”

@Beachcomber

And like I said we have boosters, which can be tweaked to combat new mutations.

I linked an article from today (see above) which indicates that the current vaccine does protect against Omicron.

Look at the success of the HPV vaccine recently that has practically eradicated a common cancer.

I just don’t know where you are getting your science from - like I keep saying. It is not the consensus of scientific opinion that mass vaccination doesn’t work. You cannot persuade people to follow emerging science which has not been robustly vetted because it could be harmful.

Yes. And I linked to an article that paints a less positive picture of the same science and the same data. www.reuters.com/business/healthcare-pharmaceuticals/pfizer-covid-19-vaccine-partially-protective-against-omicron-bloomberg-news-2021-12-07/

Time will tell I guess.

I hope that you are right and I am wrong.

Current boosters are not "tweaked". They are the same formulations as primary and secondary injections.

No doubt they could be "tweaked" for Omicron - by which time we will no doubt be dealing with another variant.

@Beachcomber I think Pfizer have said they could have then ‘tweaked’ for March. Let’s hope it’s not necessary because Omicron turns out to be very mild and ends this whole thing.

Watching the news now on ITV and the reporter is in an ICU ward , where 4 out of 5 patients are unvaccinated.

Yes, let's hope so. I think we are all hoping for that outcome.

I'm worried about what happens next however if Omicron is not the end. Apologies for the negativity.

March will either be too late for Omicron tweaked vaccines or irrelevant for them because we will have moved from pandemic to endemic. Fingers crossed it is the latter.

@Barney60

ffs Derbee Ive heard these figures are incorrect and its actually 35% of non vaccinated people in hospital. Is what ists meant to say obvs. Doesnt take much working, am tired, out just in from 12 hour shift in a hospital!

Thank you Bumbleymummy.

But the “I’ve heard” and “I think” and “my friend told me” etc is all false information. It’s people who don’t know what they’re talking about making figures up to support their individual argument, no matter what side of the vaccine/no vaccine argument they’re on.

@Desithebulldog

0 jabs = unvaccinated
1 jab (of 2) = unvaccinated
2 jabs (less than 14 days ago)= unvaccinated
2 jabs (3 months and 1 day) = unvaccinated
3 jabs (3 months and 1 day) = unvaccinated

The figures are therefore going to be extremely ambiguous and misleading.

@Derbee Barney60 is yet another poster latching onto a full fact article which talks about hospital admissions. Yet the 90 % cited refers to ICU admissions and based on the article probably ECMO patients.
Latest data which goes back to May to July suggests figure for unvaccinated in ICU more like 70%. Time will tell what it will be on the next report.

More details from Full Facts

No one dose is in a separate section.

I am so sorry. I hope your DH gets the ICU bed he needs. Good luck to you both.

@Beachcomber - yes future tweaking to the best of our worldwide scientific ability - which - unfortunately - doesn’t include a crystal ball to magically predict how the virus will next mutate - with a vaccine at the ready to zap it. So we do the best we can.

I think there is a very important distinction to make between science and governments. Science is amazing, awe inspiring and can change our world for the better. I don’t think the same can be said about many governments - our government in particular. Just because our government is being untrustworthy and shit - doesn’t mean that we should ALSO reject the science.

@Beadebaser your posts are the most sensible ones on this thread.

90% of ICU patients admitted with COVID haven't been vaccinated.

I would want to see that figure of 90% broken down further, otherwise it doesn't give enough useful information.

• ethnicity of patients
• BMI
• any underlying conditions
• number of jabs (since having just one could equal 'unvaccinated', which is clearly untrue)
• previous Covid infections
• age

@Northsoutheastwest76

More details from Full Facts

The largest funder of FullFacts is Facebook, that well known font of truth and honesty lol (fullfact.org/about/funding/) You could not make this stuff up anymore, it really is beyond parody.