Anti vaxxers question *title edited by MNHQ at OP's request*

[whywouldntyou]

Watching the local news last week our local hospitals ITU is 6/8 full with covid patients. All unvaccinated. Youngest is 20 with no underlying heath conditions. I am continually hearing about covid patients in or just out of ITU saying 'I wish I'd got the jab'.

How do you (as an anti vaxxer) reconcile your attitude but still expecting to be treated in ITU? If they said ' right, no jab, no ITU bed' would you still refuse the vaccine?

What would it (genuinely) take for you to have the jab having seen all the other anti vaxxers encouraging people to have it after realising how ill they were?

The problem nowadays is that too many people think their opinion is valid. Does my degree in immunology mean nothing if it's all down to "opinion"? If everything is down to opinion let me offer to do your taxes for you next year. I'm sure when HMRC come to arrest us a fair enough argument will be "but it's my opinion and my right to have it". Sorry, it's just wrong.

My risk is already super low, maybe 1% risk of dying maximum. I'm happy with that! Take a vaccine to reduce it to 0.5% (maybe, not proven), why?! I don't see the point. I also would then face risk of reactions from the jab, however small. Currently my risk of that is 0%.
Plus my "stance" is partly down to the fact that I won't be coerced or bullied into it. Our right to say no, to choose what goes I to our bodies is so important. I'll stand up for that with my incredibly low risk of serious illness or death thanks :-)

I do find it really bizarre that people who consider themselves (and probably are) altruistic and mature individuals can take such a big risk about damaging both themselves and, more importantly, wider society.

There are no risks to getting vaccinated that are greater than getting COVID and, as the German health minister put it recently, by next spring you will either be 'vaccinated, recovered from COVID or dead'.

I am currently isolating having tested positive last week. I am in my 50s and only found out after I tested when feeling flushed and having a headache. Thankfully, I had the booster a few days prior to exposure.

And, re the flu jab, those over a certain age are being very much persuaded into having it. Have you not heard the NHS capaign on the radio and TV?!

@Bluepinkyellowcakes

Influenza is also a nasty illness, though about 10 times less fatal than COVID. You probably have never had it, just regular winter viruses. Generally, even healthy people take to their beds for several days with it. There are also flus and flus. We are just hoping that we don't get a novel combination of the H and N antigen, which is truly dangerous, as we did with the Spanish Flu.

Full blown covid denying anti vaxxers I know believe it is only the vaccinated in hospital and that any person having say heart issue clearly had the vax.
Even an 11 year old child.

@alreadytaken

These people thought they didnt need a vaccine www.sorryantivaxxer.com/

Doctors sign up to seek the sick. They know that comes with some risk to their own health and their family's health - but treating a smoker or an alcoholic doesnt give them a big health risk, treating someone with covid does. So this is more personal. Treating that person differently would be unprofessional but that wont stop what they think about the patient.

What a vile site. It is as bad as the HermainCain subReddit that also gloats at the deaths of antivaxxers too.

If the OP is genuinely interested, I am certainly not anti vax, had all my vaccines, trust medicine and science but this pandemic has been hugely political. Dr's have never forced me to have any medical treatment against my will.

I will not have this vaccine as I do not believe it necessary. I believe the risk of side effects is more than the benefit of getting it. That is a personal choice and no amount of bullying will make me change my mind - in fact its made me more resolute in my decision.

I am totally against vaccine passports and restricting movements based on vaccine status and removing medical care based on someone's status. I pay higher rate tax and would expect treatment the same as someone obese, smoker, drinker, skier, skydiver and if you really think about this utter abhorrent suggestion and what it would really mean in practice you'll realise that would make you a monster.

Plus it's not just one vaccine, it's a whole series of them. I'm someone who rarely even takes a painkiller. As I said upthread I don't drink or smoke. I don't take drugs. I don't eat meat. I do care what I put into my body. So I don't want to sign up to a series of in my opinion unnecessary injections that don't prevent me getting the illness, don't stop me passing it on and don't prevent me dying from it. Add on the fact the makers can't be sued if anything goes wrong and it's a definite no from me.

As an person without the Covid vaccine (I'm not unvaccinated because I have everything else that's been offered to me) I expect to be treated because unfortunately I have no option but to pay into the system so expect the same treatment as alcoholics, drug addicts, overweight people etc receive.

Sorry @Dogknowsbest, i missed the bit in MN rulebook where it stated that yours was the only opinion valid. And, forgive me if you were trying to make a point because i completely missed it but i highly doubt you have a degree in immunology so are no more informed on the subject than me. Just because you like to insult, doesnt make you right and me wrong.

The NHS flu campaign on the radio isn't the same as the covid jab campaign. If anyone can pass flu to vulnerable people surely it should be the same campaign for everyone young and old?
Yes I know they have offered the jab more widely this year, but that it, as far as I can see. It's been offered. I had a letter sent to my children's schools inviting them to have the spray, which I declined as unnecessary.
For covid I had 4 or 5 letters from my surgery, more from NHS, I had several phone calls from the doctors surgery, leaving me voicemails, I am pretty sure I had an email too. That's pretty intense I think. All for a jab that might make a tiny risk a bit smaller but won't stop me catching or passing it on or possibly dying from it. It's crazy.

Ds1 (A'levels) didn't want to and his reasons seemed valid, logical and reasonable to me. He just didn't see the risk as that high as a healthy young male teen. As it is he's now had 1st but I feel Dh and I may have persuaded him too much. Dh and I are tripled, and even Ds2 had 1st ages ago.

@Bluepinkyellowcakes

The NHS flu campaign on the radio isn't the same as the covid jab campaign. If anyone can pass flu to vulnerable people surely it should be the same campaign for everyone young and old? Yes I know they have offered the jab more widely this year, but that it, as far as I can see. It's been offered. I had a letter sent to my children's schools inviting them to have the spray, which I declined as unnecessary. For covid I had 4 or 5 letters from my surgery, more from NHS, I had several phone calls from the doctors surgery, leaving me voicemails, I am pretty sure I had an email too. That's pretty intense I think. All for a jab that might make a tiny risk a bit smaller but won't stop me catching or passing it on or possibly dying from it. It's crazy.

It’s been pointed out to you several times some of the reasons why the flu vaccine is different to the Covid vaccine, but you haven’t acknowledged them.

If you won’t educate yourself there’s no point in bothering to engage.

@foxgoosefinch it's not about the difference between the vaccines themselves, it's the fact that people vulnerable to covid are also vulnerable to flu, yet there's not the same push to get people to vaccinate against flu is there. It's the pushing, the bullying, the coercive nature of it that is wrong.

@Bluepinkyellowcakes exactly. I read a thread earlier where a person said they needed hospital treatment after BOTH jabs, but was still going to get the booster. Should she be refused treatment as she has put herself in this situation knowingly? She probably wouldn't have needed hospital treatment had she got covid.

More contagious, more deadly, but still ultimately a low risk overall. Why won't you acknowledge that virtually everyone that gets it recovers?

[quote rightsideoftheroad]@Bluepinkyellowcakes exactly. I read a thread earlier where a person said they needed hospital treatment after BOTH jabs, but was still going to get the booster. Should she be refused treatment as she has put herself in this situation knowingly? She probably wouldn't have needed hospital treatment had she got covid.[/quote]
Nobody should be refused NHS treatment if they want it. The NHS isn't a charity, it's a service we all pay for. Staffed by people who have gone into medicine knowing they are at risk of catching illnesses. They are paid to look after people, it's their job, their choice. They aren't actual angels sent from heaven. They are people, doing their job. Just like millions of others doing their jobs.

As I've mentioned elsewhere, I know one antivaxer and he's dead. So take your chances peeps but I know what I'm doing .

I'm not cavalier about others health either! I practice good hygiene, always have and so do my children. If I'm ill I avoid going around spreading it about. That's just being a decent person.
There's an argument that jabbed people are more likely to spread it as they might not realise they have it if the jab has lessened their symptoms. So they go out and spread unknowingly. If I get it and I don't get it mild so I know I'm ill then I will stay home. So I'd argue I'm less risk. But I'm sure I'm going to be told I'm wrong :-)

@Bluepinkyellowcakes

It is no longer considered a high consequence infectious disease due to amongst other things the low overall mortality rate. According to bmj and gov. UK websites. Yes, still serious for some, but its not as deadly as some people seem to think.

1% of a big number is a big number.

If all of us caught COVID (highly likely with the new highly transmissible variants) 7,000,000 people would die.

7 million dead.

...and you think that's okay?

You'd be fine with every individual deciding it wasn't worth it for them personally when it's only a 1% risk and then that resulting in 7 million people dying. More than the Holocaust...

Okay then.

Actually yes, because that's life. People die. We all will. It's always been that way and it always will be. People need to stop think g we must live forever.
Having said that I do believe we can minimise risk to ourselves and others by practicing good hygiene and looking after our healthy by doing things that are right for our bodies naturally, ie eating well, trying to get good sleep, maintaining a healthy weight, fitness. But this jab I don't believe is needed.

[quote Bluepinkyellowcakes]@foxgoosefinch it's not about the difference between the vaccines themselves, it's the fact that people vulnerable to covid are also vulnerable to flu, yet there's not the same push to get people to vaccinate against flu is there. It's the pushing, the bullying, the coercive nature of it that is wrong.[/quote]
What coercion? There’s been no coercion I’ve experienced. I’ve been sent a couple of texts by my surgery saying I’m now eligible for the vaccine. Some coercion.

And you’re the very one bringing up the difference between the vaccines, and then saying it’s not about the difference between the vaccines when multiple posters point out some of the differences.

I can only conclude that really you are quite hard of thinking, and seem to think you are informed when you’re misinformed.

Honestly, what this thread proves is that some people have very poor understanding of the issue, and/or want to reserve the prerogative to “make their own decisions” whilst also desiring to be protected from the consequences of those decisions.

Then also complain that other people are exasperated with them or make fun of them.

It’s all individual decision but no personal responsibility at all.

Ignore my bad maths - 700,000 dead not 7 million.

But point still stands - 700,000 is a lot of dead people.

@foxgoosefinch resorting to name calling does you no favours. I'm not hard of thinking. I never once said I won't have covid jab because it's different to flu jab, I said same people at risk from both lnesses yet only one gets the jab pushed.
As for coercion are you serious?! OK, my boyfriend says If I don't have sex I'm selfish, he's going to stop me going on holiday, I won't be allowed in the club, I'll even lose my job if I don't do what he wants.... That's coercion and bullying right?! So change it to my government wants me to take a vaccine (or some people on the Internet want me to take the vaccine....) and its the same. Its wrong. So wrong! It's not a choice when everything is taken from you til you agree to do it.