Page 2 | Anti vaxxers question *title edited by MNHQ at OP's request*

foxgoosefinch · 28/11/2021 15:25

@Kendodd

What astonishes me about anti vaxxers is that they somehow think they know more about covid and vaccines that the collective experts of the WHO, the CDC, the NHS, PHE, and the EMA. I just cringe for them sometimes.

Yeah, I do cringe. Especially for the “but we don’t really know why!” types, who don’t seem to realise that other people do actually understand why.

My MIL’s like this. She has very limited scientific knowledge, so she kind of makes ideas up and then goes around saying “well nobody really understands about why X happens”- when actually people do understand it perfectly well, it’s just her knowledge and ability to understand it is just very limited.

I always wonder what goes through the rationalisation process of people who have very little scientific training or knowledge but seem to think it can be obtained from surfing the internet (rather than, for instance, getting As in science subjects at school, and then going on to do degrees, doctorates and professional training in science and medicine…) Do they really believe they understand this subject?

Bluepinkyellowcakes · 28/11/2021 15:28

www.bmj.com/content/372/bmj.n314/rr-11

Need to scroll down a bit but it's on there about low overall mortality rate

HoardingSamphireSaurus · 28/11/2021 15:28

@Bluepinkyellowcakes

It is no longer considered a high consequence infectious disease due to amongst other things the low overall mortality rate. According to bmj and gov. UK websites. Yes, still serious for some, but its not as deadly as some people seem to think.

Ye god's. Amongst those other things would be vaccination uptake. But, as others have said, your version of events isn't actually true.

As the first part of your last sentence proves you fully understand.

Stop with the disinformation.

foxgoosefinch · 28/11/2021 15:29

[quote Bluepinkyellowcakes]www.gov.uk/guidance/high-consequence-infectious-diseases-hcid[/quote]
I don’t think you understand what this page means, really.

HoardingSamphireSaurus · 28/11/2021 15:31

And how about you link to some statistics instead of a reply in an opinion piece?

Because, oddly, many posters here are perfectly capable of understanding factual data, statistical analysis.

Bluepinkyellowcakes · 28/11/2021 15:32

Cringing isn't very nice is it.
I explained why I don't want a jab, responded to posts saying what I said was untrue with links to prove that it is in fact true. But I didn't use nastiness to get my point across. That's what I mean by this is dividing people! That is what's wrong with this. I know and love people who have had jabs, some who won't have any more, some who can't wait for updates boosters, some who will never take any. I don't talk down to any of them or treat any of them differently. It's a personal choice, based on people deciding for themselves what risk level they are happy with.

ComtesseDeSpair · 28/11/2021 15:36

@Bluepinkyellowcakes

www.bmj.com/content/372/bmj.n314/rr-11

Need to scroll down a bit but it's on there about low overall mortality rate

I’ve just learned that Monkeypox is an actual disease. I thought it was just what I tell DP he must have whenever he gets a weird rash.

foxgoosefinch · 28/11/2021 15:38

@Bluepinkyellowcakes

Cringing isn't very nice is it. I explained why I don't want a jab, responded to posts saying what I said was untrue with links to prove that it is in fact true. But I didn't use nastiness to get my point across. That's what I mean by this is dividing people! That is what's wrong with this. I know and love people who have had jabs, some who won't have any more, some who can't wait for updates boosters, some who will never take any. I don't talk down to any of them or treat any of them differently. It's a personal choice, based on people deciding for themselves what risk level they are happy with.

I don’t really know what to say though: the “link” you’ve posted shows that you’ve confused “high mortality rate” in general with a very specific set of rare diseases, which are classified like that because they have a combination of very particular medical aspects.

There are lots of diseases with high mortality rates that aren’t covered in that page because their clinical features and infection vectors are different.

Some of those diseases on that page have mortality rates of 50-60 percent or more. That doesn’t mean Covid is considered to be of low consequence in comparison.

Bluepinkyellowcakes · 28/11/2021 15:38

Official government and bmj sites are really not good enough?! I don't have time to go back through my browser history and link to everywhere I have seen it. Feel free to look yourself, its not made up!

Neither is covid made up. Nor is the fact it can pose a risk to people. But that risk is very small and so I don't believe I need a vaccine to protect me from it.

Bluepinkyellowcakes · 28/11/2021 15:41

I'm absolutely not one of the people who think the vaccine is a tracker, or that covid is made up, not at all. Sadly those people do exist but I'm not one. I'm just a healthy, 30 something who looks at the information available about covid and has decided that actually I will probably do OK by myself if I get it and so don't need to take a vaccine, in exactly the same way I did with flu. Now if it was ebola or monkeypox, then I'd be saying something different.

Chloemol · 28/11/2021 15:43

@Bluepinkyellowcakes
Covid was downgraded as comparable with flu

Ooo where was this please! Link? It’s nothing I have seen from the experts

Raaaaaaarr · 28/11/2021 15:43

@Bluepinkyellowcakes
As for hospital treatment, no I don't intend on seeking treatment. Its highly u liked I'd need it.

Okay doky then.....Let's see how that works out then shall we.

Bluepinkyellowcakes · 28/11/2021 15:45

[quote Raaaaaaarr]@Bluepinkyellowcakes
As for hospital treatment, no I don't intend on seeking treatment. Its highly u liked I'd need it.

Okay doky then.....Let's see how that works out then shall we.[/quote]
Why do you think I would need it? How many people got and recovered from covid before there were jabs? Yes many died unfortunately, but so many more didn't. Most people don't need any treatment at all. Personally I'm 30something, not overweight, healthy as far as I know, so I'm incredibly low risk.

GiveMeNovocain · 28/11/2021 15:46

I really don't understand why the vaccine has caused so much fury about rights to NHS treatment. We treat murderers who are injured in the act of killing people. What doctor would want to weigh your soul before treating you? It's a very dangerous path

Mincepiepoptarts · 28/11/2021 15:47

I’ve had the vaccines. But the more you call people names, suggest they be denied NHS treatment, and call them thick anti vaxxers who deserve all they get, even death by covid, the less likely they are to get the jab.

You’d think people would have leaned after Brexit and the last Tory landslide that sneering at them and shaming them is not the way to get people on side. But no.

You carry on though, fuelling divide, if it makes you feel superior.

Thatsplentyjack · 28/11/2021 15:47

I've had the jag BUT, it doesn't stop you getting covid, it also may not stop you needing a hospital bed because of covid. You could say this with so many things, should we not treat people who get lung cancer if they smoke, skin cancer if they didn't wear sun cream, liver failure if they drink too much? Where would it end? Had a car crash? Well it's your choice to get in a car 🤷‍♀️

HoardingSamphireSaurus · 28/11/2021 15:48

@Bluepinkyellowcakes

Official government and bmj sites are really not good enough?! I don't have time to go back through my browser history and link to everywhere I have seen it. Feel free to look yourself, its not made up!

Neither is covid made up. Nor is the fact it can pose a risk to people. But that risk is very small and so I don't believe I need a vaccine to protect me from it.

As others have said you have misunderstood the .gov data and have reinforced that misunderstanding with a vituperative opinion piece.

And I can't believe I'm about to type this but... relatively healthy people don't have the vaccine for themselves but as part of the vaccine strategy of the whole country. You get yours to help protect others. As has been said for almost 2 years now.

I REALLY cannot believe I just typed that!

foxgoosefinch · 28/11/2021 15:49

@Bluepinkyellowcakes

Official government and bmj sites are really not good enough?! I don't have time to go back through my browser history and link to everywhere I have seen it. Feel free to look yourself, its not made up!

Neither is covid made up. Nor is the fact it can pose a risk to people. But that risk is very small and so I don't believe I need a vaccine to protect me from it.

It isn’t that they aren’t good enough, it’s that you clearly don’t really understand what they mean or the context they are written in. They even say explicitly that Covid is significant because of the potential to cause large mortality overall because of widespread infection. You’ve confused mortality rate with overall mortality.

Haemorrhagic fevers and MERS/hantavirus all have very specific features that are not just about the high mortality rate, so they are uniquely classified. There are diseases with higher mortality rates: they just don’t happen to fit these specific criteria.

Soubriquet · 28/11/2021 15:51

I’m not anti vaxx. I’ve had all my vaccines and so have my dh, however I haven’t had the COVID jab. I react really badly to vaccines and can take a while to recover sometimes so I was hesitating having this one. I’ve had COVID too so I have some form of immunity.

However, I’m now thinking of biting the bullet and just doing it side effects be damned

Mincepiepoptarts · 28/11/2021 15:53

I had a relative who was a doctor. He treated someone who had actually attempted to bomb a large public venue but the plan had backfired and he was left with serious burns in ITU. He gave them the same treatment as anyone else.

I question the professionalism and suitability for the job of the NHS staff loudly slagging off unvaccinated people to be honest. You see all sorts of patients as a nurse or doctor who have arguably brought their predicament upon themselves, I don’t see the same intolerance. I understand the argument that people who have chosen not to have the vaccine may spread it to others but I still think the bile directed towards them, as if they are done kind of dirty, diseased underclass, is revolting.

BertieBotts · 28/11/2021 15:53

I'm not an antivaxxer. Have had covid jab.

How do you (as an anti vaxxer) reconcile your attitude but still expecting to be treated in ITU? If they said ' right, no jab, no ITU bed' would you still refuse the vaccine?

This is a disgusting question/proposal. Of course everyone is and should be entitled to ITU treatment.

Why on earth would that ever be a criteria? It doesn't make sense.

NeedAHoliday2021 · 28/11/2021 15:55

Not an anti vaxxer, but I won't have this jab because I don't believe it's necessary. ah, because you know better than highly qualified doctors. It’s like saying you’ll fly a plane to your holiday destination rather than trusting the qualified pilot.

Sadly, some people aren’t very bright. You can’t argue with stupid. We had the anti Vax brigade outside the hospital and I had to block a consultant from confronting them. No good would have come of it.

Raaaaaaarr · 28/11/2021 15:55

@Bluepinkyellowcakes I really don't even know where to start with most of what you have said on this thread to be honest. Most of your research is internet based. This isn't research I am afraid. The 'it won't get me' attitude is actually pretty selfish also. It may cause you serious illness (yes you despite thinking you're out of the age, weight range etc) and the chances of this only increase as you avoid the vaccine and allow this virus to continue to mutate.

Bluepinkyellowcakes · 28/11/2021 15:55

The jab is to protect yourself from possibly getting a more severe illness. It's not to protect anyone else. Jabbed still catch pass and die from covid. Look at Israel. Gibraltar.

foxgoosefinch · 28/11/2021 15:55

@Bluepinkyellowcakes

I'm absolutely not one of the people who think the vaccine is a tracker, or that covid is made up, not at all. Sadly those people do exist but I'm not one. I'm just a healthy, 30 something who looks at the information available about covid and has decided that actually I will probably do OK by myself if I get it and so don't need to take a vaccine, in exactly the same way I did with flu. Now if it was ebola or monkeypox, then I'd be saying something different.

Ebola is a horrible disease, but it’s actually clinically very hard to spread in a population. That’s precisely because it kills so many people so quickly, and contact with bodily fluids is required to become infected.

It is an entirely different prospect to Covid, which can kill a lot more people overall precisely because its clinical mortality rate is lower but it’s easier to spread.