Austria unvaccinated lockdown

[MRex]

How is this expected to actually work in practice? I have only seen basic UK news articles, interested mostly to understand the practical implications.

Personal views without knowing detail: I simply don't see any way this can be achieved without infringing on personal freedoms of unvaccinated and vaccinated quite significantly. I'm very pro-vax in general and for covid, but I hope the UK doesn't start anything like this, seems like it would just have anyone digging their heels in and cause a lot of social unrest issues.

MRex I had the second vaccine on 9 April 2021.
It was not common knowledge at that time that people were having a severe reaction leading to brain bleeds after the vaccine. It was not just a headache I was unable to move my head without extreme pain.
Perhaps you had knowledge that my GPs and the NHS were not aware of at the time. You k ow maybe I should have kicked up a fuss but then that’s not my style I was grateful to be ok after.
You must let me know next weeks lottery numbers as you are so prescient.

@Malibuismysecrethome

MRex I had the second vaccine on 9 April 2021. It was not common knowledge at that time that people were having a severe reaction leading to brain bleeds after the vaccine. It was not just a headache I was unable to move my head without extreme pain. Perhaps you had knowledge that my GPs and the NHS were not aware of at the time. You k ow maybe I should have kicked up a fuss but then that’s not my style I was grateful to be ok after. You must let me know next weeks lottery numbers as you are so prescient.

It was being investigated from before 10th March, look at the date here: www.ema.europa.eu/en/news/covid-19-vaccine-astrazeneca-prac-preliminary-view-suggests-no-specific-issue-batch-used-austria. It's not being "prescient" to state the fact that this was in the press before 8th April. The Expert Haematology Panel on the UK was meeting daily from March and issued the protocol to test and manage this very rare reaction on 7th April. I can't link a PFF, but you can Google it for yourself, see the attached image. Your statement was that you and your doctors knew nothing about this on 8th April, nor in weeks following, which is precisely when it was all over all the media all the time.

Anyone who knows anyone who has been vaccine damaged is living in fear. Anyone who knew this was coming pre 2020 is living in fear. Anyone who has heavily researched this is living in fear. Anyone who knows the authorities and media are lying is living in fear. It's horrendous

Oh give over.

There are reports that police in the Netherlands fired real bullets into the crowd protesting about renewed lockdown restrictions. At any other time in recent history this will have been headline news for days. People would have been horrified to hear that a western country’s police force had fired real bullets at protesters. But somehow it’s being kept fairly quiet and once again accepted as almost reasonable. It is this kind of creeping acceptance of the ‘new normal’ that is not normal and should alert everyone to the fact that something is just not quite right anymore. We cannot allow the loss of bodily autonomy or freedom to protest no matter under what ‘greater good’ banner it falls.

@Lostinacloud

There are reports that police in the Netherlands fired real bullets into the crowd protesting about renewed lockdown restrictions. At any other time in recent history this will have been headline news for days. People would have been horrified to hear that a western country’s police force had fired real bullets at protesters. But somehow it’s being kept fairly quiet and once again accepted as almost reasonable. It is this kind of creeping acceptance of the ‘new normal’ that is not normal and should alert everyone to the fact that something is just not quite right anymore. We cannot allow the loss of bodily autonomy or freedom to protest no matter under what ‘greater good’ banner it falls.

They used tear gas and water cannons. Don't spread misinformation. The reason it's not headline news is because it isn't true.

Kikoman Actually it is true that the police fired shots, the Guardian reported it. Do you think the Guardian is spreading misinformation too?

www.theguardian.com/world/2021/nov/19/the-netherlands-rotterdam-police-open-fire-as-covid-protest-turns-violent

www.google.fr/amp/s/www.standard.co.uk/news/world/netherlands-rotterdam-anti-lockdown-protest-seven-injured-police-open-fire-b967322.html%3famp

You beat me to it! Also reported in the Evening Standard.

@Lostinacloud

www.google.fr/amp/s/www.standard.co.uk/news/world/netherlands-rotterdam-anti-lockdown-protest-seven-injured-police-open-fire-b967322.html%3famp

You beat me to it! Also reported in the Evening Standard.

I think it's amazing how someone just rushes in to label your post as misinformation without even bothering to check their facts first. I wonder what other info they've rejected without checking its veracity first 🤔

This ^

Ah well, I'm sure if the rioters were brave enough to endanger life by lighting fires, setting vehicles alight and throwing fireworks, they're brave enough to take a bullet.

Does that make it right though? You are focusing on the wrong aspect.

@wombatspoopcubes

In the end I think that it might become really difficult to stay unvaccinated. You could argue about your rights in your own country but as soon as you cross a border you might be restricted in a lot of ways and have nothing to say about it.

Many people never leave their own country, though.

@madisonbridges

Ah well, I'm sure if the rioters were brave enough to endanger life by lighting fires, setting vehicles alight and throwing fireworks, they're brave enough to take a bullet.

Water cannons and tear gas are extremely effective in dealing with this sort of thing - I should know as I live in Northern Ireland where police have lots of experience with dealing with rioters at certain times of the year.

You think it's ok for police to fire live rounds at people instead of using these other non lethal but fully effective methods?

Ok then.

I believe even rubber bullets can be lethal especially if they hit someone in the face or head.

@Lilifer. You think it's OK to throw fireworks at the police horses and dogs that are always there, never mind at police officers? If you don't want the police to fire at you, protest peacefully, which has happened several times during lockdown and no one got hurt. Don't set my car on fire or put me in dangerous situations.

"But somehow it’s being kept fairly quiet ..."

It's definitely being reported in The Guardian, The Standard and The Telegraph. Is that what counts as 'being kept fairly quiet'?

LBC mentions bullets but says it's not confirmed that they were fired by the police.

[quote madisonbridges]@Lilifer. You think it's OK to throw fireworks at the police horses and dogs that are always there, never mind at police officers? If you don't want the police to fire at you, protest peacefully, which has happened several times during lockdown and no one got hurt. Don't set my car on fire or put me in dangerous situations.[/quote]
Where did I say that was ok??

Do you think it's ok for a police force to fire at its own citizens rather than use other non lethal but equally effective methods to quell violent protest?

Since the start people have being saying that such and such would never happen.

In this thread many have said that these measures would never happen in the UK.

Over time in Canada on a Federal and Provincial level politicians said there wouldn't be any vaccine passports -now we have them

Trudeau said he was against federal vaccine mandates until he recently implemented them.

Do you think it's ok for a police force to fire at its own citizens rather than use other non lethal but equally effective methods to quell violent protest?

I've given this some thought because the way you write it is stark so I needed to think if I would be happy in that sort of society. And my conclusion is, if they're setting my car alight or burning down my shop or throwing fireworks at my dog or my policeman husband, then yes, I don't care if they shoot them. If they don't have the brains, self-control and societal awareness not to be violent and destructive, and loot, I find I don't really care about them. If they're unhappy about laws, protest peacefully like 100,000s do.

@ktel1

Since the start people have being saying that such and such would never happen.

In this thread many have said that these measures would never happen in the UK.

Over time in Canada on a Federal and Provincial level politicians said there wouldn't be any vaccine passports -now we have them

Trudeau said he was against federal vaccine mandates until he recently implemented them.

This is actually quite frightening. I actually wouldn’t be surprised if it happens here. Everyone is following the same plan, it seems. I didn’t think I meant that in a conspiracy theory way, but maybe I do? I just don’t like how all this is evolving.

DayKay

Conspiracy theory= spoiler alert

@madisonbridges
Would you say the same about the black lives matters protests where they involved looting and setting fire to things (which was true in parts of the US for some of those protesting or at least other opportunists who joined in)? That an appropriate police response would have been to open fire on protestors.

Even if you are ok with the ethics of it because you don't care about the lives of anti-vaxers, police firing at citizens is massively inflammatory and likely to put police at much higher risk than a more proportionate response. It is the sort of response which starts civil wars. Plus many people who had no involvement in violence or public disorder could be caught in the cross-fire such that execution becomes a punishment for being in the wrong place at the wrong time.

And how do police decide when a protest should be quelled by gunfire? If opening fire is justified when people are looting or setting fires to cars, what about if they burn a flag / symbol or throw a statue into a river? What about where unvaccinated people are gathering peacefully and therefore risking spreading covid? At the end of this road you get Tiananem square (and I suppose if you go that far you do quell dissent because people become terrified of the establishment).

I've no idea whether the police did or didn't open fire but the fact that some people now think that we should just shoot people who happen to be at an anti restriction protest is very worrying.

@Chessie678
Are you serious? Rioting, mob violence, reckless endangerment of life has nothing to do with anti-vaxers or BLM. I have seen a lot of protests in my life, some of which I agree with and some I don't, but I respect the right of all to protest. But rioters and looters aren't protesting to make a point. They're just thugs out for their own enjoyment of destruction and harm. This was supposedly for antivax reasons. Well, it's true I'm up to date eith my booster and I'm not an anti vaxer but I have never posted anything negative about ant-vaxers. I fully support their right to protest. I don't support their right to set my car on fire or to endanger my husbands life.

To be honest, shooting at protestors would not be my go-to option but your slippery slope scenario is a reach because of how the political systems are set up. Typically if a tennis player accused a Dutch govt official of assault, they don't disappear, instead they can speak their piece in every newspaper. And no doubt those police officers that fired rounds, if they were the police, will be automatically investigated. If you follow your argument you could just as easily say we shouldn't punish criminals because we could get to the point of hanging people for sex outside marriage like they do in Pakistan. Which I believe is ridiculous.

As for your where does it stop? There had been no violence from protestors or police during the day whilst people protested peacefully. So how about, obeying the law then it won't even start.

There have been protests in france every Saturday for 15 weeks. They are not anti-vax or far right, they are ordinary people afraid of where this situation is heading and upset about the loss of their bodily autonomy and freedom of choice. Every last protest has been peaceful until the police appear to have been told to provoke some groups and use very handed tactics and only at that point did some slight disturbance take place on the fringes. The reason why these protests are so peaceful is due to the demographic attending them. Ordinary families of many generations, not fixated on anti establishment ideals, literally just calling for an end to the unfair discrimination which see unvaccinated people banned from most public spaces unless they have a €25 test every 3 days.

Lockdowns for the unvaxxed are complete nonsense. As said countless times the vaxxed can both catch & spread it. Also, it’s nigh on unenforceable. What constitutes ‘fully vaccinated’ & for whom at what moment in time? It’s a definition built on fast shifting sands. 6 months in needing boosters already?

So good luck enforcing all that over millions of lockdown weary people and businesses who are desperate for every customer cent they can get at the moment as we collectively come out of the economic abyss…