Austria unvaccinated lockdown

[MRex]

How is this expected to actually work in practice? I have only seen basic UK news articles, interested mostly to understand the practical implications.

Personal views without knowing detail: I simply don't see any way this can be achieved without infringing on personal freedoms of unvaccinated and vaccinated quite significantly. I'm very pro-vax in general and for covid, but I hope the UK doesn't start anything like this, seems like it would just have anyone digging their heels in and cause a lot of social unrest issues.

The utter, utter shite that's spouted on here, which is then taken at face value, is unbelievable. Austrians are used to being treated like victorian children? They're especially compliant/strict? What the hell are you talking about? I've lived here for 21 years and 1) I've been asked to show my driving licence once in that time, when I (rightly) got pulled over for performing a dangerous manoeuvre in my car , and 2) the Austrians have a large "grey zone" of understanding with regards to any rules or regulations, which means nothing is black and white and everything open to interpretation. They're massive, often annoying rule breakers. They also - despite being a nation of hypochondriacs - have an ingrained deep suspicion of doctors and pharmaceuticals, they never take painkillers, get homeopathic remedies and 'globuli' (sugar pills) from the chemist and their cure for anything from sprained knee to an episiotomy is to smear cream cheese (Topfen) all over it. That combined with the minority but loud far-right anti-tax element means that vaccination rates are still really low here and we are seeing a massive 4th wave.

I live in Vienna but people who live in the countryside have always maintained it's just "Panikmacher" and anyone whose immune system is ok will be fine. Rates have now exploded in the county with a strong right-wing presence that has been banging on about civil liberties and body autonomy etc.. Austria has one of the highest amount of ICU beds per 100000 people in Europe (approx 22 compared with 6 in the UK) and the healthcare system has held up well so far, but it's now out of control.

Something has to be done. I don't know if this is the right way - I would have preferred to see "vaccinated or pcr tested" - but it's ten days and the idea that it's some sort of police state is just laughable.

There was incidentally an article in the Suddeutsche Zeitung the other day, where they interviewed ICU nurses who said that at the beginning of the pandemic, patients were just grateful to be alive, now they're complaining about bodily autonomy, they complain about having to be proned and about the oxygen tubes up their nose and that it's too loud because of all the coughing (!), asking for Klangschalen and reflexology - don't know what it's called in English, it's one of those bowls that they hit with a gong at the end of yoga.

FUCK OFF! I mean, Jesus Christ. Get a grip. We're all so spoilt, we have amazing vaccines, we have pcr-testing (free for everyone in Austria), we know masks work. And all people can do is whinge on about their damaged civil liberties. (And contrary to the comments here about how compliant the Austrians are, a section of society has been holding protests every week since the pandemic began).

It's shit. Covid is shit. Every country is trying to handle it in their own way. The UK is no shining example. But if you're going to comment on what other countries are doing, get your facts straight.

@sourcherie

The utter, utter shite that's spouted on here, which is then taken at face value, is unbelievable. Austrians are used to being treated like victorian children? They're especially compliant/strict? What the hell are you talking about? I've lived here for 21 years and 1) I've been asked to show my driving licence once in that time, when I (rightly) got pulled over for performing a dangerous manoeuvre in my car , and 2) the Austrians have a large "grey zone" of understanding with regards to any rules or regulations, which means nothing is black and white and everything open to interpretation. They're massive, often annoying rule breakers. They also - despite being a nation of hypochondriacs - have an ingrained deep suspicion of doctors and pharmaceuticals, they never take painkillers, get homeopathic remedies and 'globuli' (sugar pills) from the chemist and their cure for anything from sprained knee to an episiotomy is to smear cream cheese (Topfen) all over it. That combined with the minority but loud far-right anti-tax element means that vaccination rates are still really low here and we are seeing a massive 4th wave.

I live in Vienna but people who live in the countryside have always maintained it's just "Panikmacher" and anyone whose immune system is ok will be fine. Rates have now exploded in the county with a strong right-wing presence that has been banging on about civil liberties and body autonomy etc.. Austria has one of the highest amount of ICU beds per 100000 people in Europe (approx 22 compared with 6 in the UK) and the healthcare system has held up well so far, but it's now out of control.

Something has to be done. I don't know if this is the right way - I would have preferred to see "vaccinated or pcr tested" - but it's ten days and the idea that it's some sort of police state is just laughable.

There was incidentally an article in the Suddeutsche Zeitung the other day, where they interviewed ICU nurses who said that at the beginning of the pandemic, patients were just grateful to be alive, now they're complaining about bodily autonomy, they complain about having to be proned and about the oxygen tubes up their nose and that it's too loud because of all the coughing (!), asking for Klangschalen and reflexology - don't know what it's called in English, it's one of those bowls that they hit with a gong at the end of yoga.

FUCK OFF! I mean, Jesus Christ. Get a grip. We're all so spoilt, we have amazing vaccines, we have pcr-testing (free for everyone in Austria), we know masks work. And all people can do is whinge on about their damaged civil liberties. (And contrary to the comments here about how compliant the Austrians are, a section of society has been holding protests every week since the pandemic began).

It's shit. Covid is shit. Every country is trying to handle it in their own way. The UK is no shining example. But if you're going to comment on what other countries are doing, get your facts straight.

Interesting and amusing in some parts

I was interested in reaction in Austria rather than assuming so it’s good to get info (will skip over utter shite part ;)

Do you think it will work and more people will book vaccination?

@sourcherie
I think that’s a great post and thank you for the insight.
I read an article the other day saying there is a link between those who are anti restrictions and personality traits such as collective narcissism, machiavellianism and psychopathy. The dark triad I think it’s referred to.

I also read an interesting article about links between anti vaxxers and cultism. The example was of a cult in America who were convinced the world was going to end at a particular time, and gathered in a church. When that time passed, rather than admit they were wrong - the cult leader stated that she had been given a ‘message’. That they had been ‘saved’ and had in turn saved the world because of their cult. And this was believed by every member of the cult, rather than addressing the embarrassment that their belief was wrong.

www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.psypost.org/2020/07/narcissistic-personalities-linked-to-defiance-of-coronavirus-prevention-guidelines-and-hoarding-57230/amp

Thanks for your insightful (and funny) post @sourcherie. Did you mean the Tibetan Singing Bowls?

MarshaBradyo scuse my language , it really grinds my gears, people make sweeping statements without having any real understanding or experience of a culture, particularly about Austria, which gets lumped in with Germany, though they're very different. (German efficiency, for example, is nowhere to be seen here).

Having said that, there was an article in the paper the other day asking why Germany, Austria and Switzerland are all so anti-medicine; it was interesting and goes back a long way, according to the writer's theories.

I don't know if it'll work - it's only 10 days - there has been a rush on the vaccination centres because of it, but we're still a long way off the numbers we need. I think people have gone to get jabbed who kind of wanted to but didn't know how to without losing face after their initial hesitation - this sort of gives them a way out (and they can still grumble about it).

I sort of understand why the government's done it like this, because I think a lot of the vaccinated would be up in arms if they have to be in lockdown, because they say what's the point if our liberties are still being curtailed. I personally wouldn't care - we're still all in the same boat, whether we like it or not, and we need to pull together one way or another. None of it is ideal, a lot of it is really annoying, but it's a crisis and we all have to do our bit if we can.

I suspect the whole country will have to go into lockdown because the hospitals are being overwhelmed now; we'll see.

I also just remembered that someone said in Austria you have to do a pcr test every 24 hours - categorically not true.

(I also just remembered my favourite example of Topfen being used in hospital which was on someone's leg after they got run over by a tram).

@MRex

Thanks for your insightful (and funny) post *@sourcherie*. Did you mean the Tibetan Singing Bowls?

Yes, I did!! Thank you!

What happens next?
Let’s say the unvaccinated get the vaccine and we all have vaccine passports – then what?
Will we be told to continually have boosters for covid, flu and anything else “they” deem is necessary.

The infrastructure will be in place we will have no choice if we want freedom to travel, work, vote etc.

So what? You already have to have vaccinations for certain jobs or to travel to certain countries, what’s the difference?

In delighted by the idea of ambulances turning up with emergency singing bowls filled with soft cheese... No oxygen, just BONG! Every country can be strange in their own unexpected ways.

The difference is having a choice

@kimsbb the great “they” I believe are healthcare professionals worldwide. I DO believe it’s about controlling Covid, preventing deaths and ensuring hospitals can cope. I want to know that me, my family, my children, maternity patients, cancer patients can get adequate treatment. These are life and death situations. I think it’s inflammatory to think that more and more of our liberties will be taken away. We can see already that more restrictions are put in place when infection rates are unmanageable, and eased when the rates are more manageable.

The choice is exactly the same as my previous post. Get the vaccination or be excluded from certain jobs/activities.

[quote SpringKit]@kimsbb the great “they” I believe are healthcare professionals worldwide. I DO believe it’s about controlling Covid, preventing deaths and ensuring hospitals can cope. I want to know that me, my family, my children, maternity patients, cancer patients can get adequate treatment. These are life and death situations. I think it’s inflammatory to think that more and more of our liberties will be taken away. We can see already that more restrictions are put in place when infection rates are unmanageable, and eased when the rates are more manageable.[/quote]
Hear hear.

I read an article the other day saying there is a link between those who are anti restrictions and personality traits such as collective narcissism, machiavellianism and psychopathy

Is there no end to the efforts to be plain insulting and unpleasant?!
I was anti restrictions because all our income went away!
I'm anti the vaccine for me personally due to being disabled by a bad reaction to a medication.

I've got plenty of skin in the game, I've had a dire 18 months of stress and fear and now I'm a fucking narc psycho to boot?!

@SpringKit Very interesting article; the mechanisms of the human psyche, fascinating.

@MaxNormal I don’t think it was aimed at everyone who doesn’t want the vaccination; it was just one angle about a particular subset of people. God knows there are enough people with genuine reasons not to have it, and fair enough.

@sourcherie I'm a bit sensitive, I should probably come away from posting again for a bit.

I read an article the other day saying there is a link between those who are anti restrictions and personality traits such as collective narcissism, machiavellianism and psychopathy

This doesn’t ring true to me either.

I’m for a proportionate response which isn’t just about cases low as possible, and atm restrictions shouldn’t be reintroduced

I don’t fit that profile though. All the way through I’ve been compliant, as many have.

@MarshaBradyo @MaxNormal

I’m not saying I necessarily agree, but I do think it’s a discussion point.

I believe I possess those personality traits. I put a few extra toilet rolls in my trolley, and queued for petrol at 4am - despite knowing it was the wrong thing to do. I say I’ve also used restriction rules to my advantage (to avoid seeing people I don’t want to see), or potentially broken restrictions to see a family member.

I guess a lot of it is about questioning our motives - am I doing this for me, am I doing it for the good of the whole, am I doing this because I’ve got so deeply ingrained with an online group that I don’t want to face the fact that I might be wrong…

[quote SpringKit]@sourcherie
I think that’s a great post and thank you for the insight.
I read an article the other day saying there is a link between those who are anti restrictions and personality traits such as collective narcissism, machiavellianism and psychopathy. The dark triad I think it’s referred to.

I also read an interesting article about links between anti vaxxers and cultism. The example was of a cult in America who were convinced the world was going to end at a particular time, and gathered in a church. When that time passed, rather than admit they were wrong - the cult leader stated that she had been given a ‘message’. That they had been ‘saved’ and had in turn saved the world because of their cult. And this was believed by every member of the cult, rather than addressing the embarrassment that their belief was wrong.[/quote]
This is hilarious @SpringKit

If there was an example of falling for bullshit, facebookish clap trap - this would be one.

[quote MaxNormal]@sourcherie I'm a bit sensitive, I should probably come away from posting again for a bit.[/quote]

[quote MaxNormal]@sourcherie I'm a bit sensitive, I should probably come away from posting again for a bit.[/quote]
No you're not sensitive Max - it was insulting.

I have a son who has CP - both he and I don't want to risk him being vaccinated because his disability could very well get worse. It's neurological. He's had one vaccine in the past and reacted very badly to that. That's what began me on my journey of vaccine skepticism. 15 years ago.

The thing that gets me is that those who are skeptical and questioning have to be so careful of what they say on here - otherwise they get reported and thrown off. They get accused of falling for bullshit on Facebook. All sorts of insults are thrown at us.

The stupidity and narrow mindedness though- cultishness if you like, is coming from the FallingforPfizer brigade. It is scary. I've never understood how people could be so blind and obedient to allow events in history to have happened. What we are seeing and experiencing now - is enlightening me, sadly, on that front.

Hang on, but I haven’t insulted anyone have I? I linked an article from a creditable source. Surely that’s allowed isn’t it? Particularly if we are talking about personal freedom. Apologies - it wasn’t a personal attack.

I feel pretty sensitive about anti restriction sentiments due to life and death situations in my family. But I’d prefer to just keep it as a discussion. No personal attack intended.