Austria unvaccinated lockdown

[MRex]

How is this expected to actually work in practice? I have only seen basic UK news articles, interested mostly to understand the practical implications.

Personal views without knowing detail: I simply don't see any way this can be achieved without infringing on personal freedoms of unvaccinated and vaccinated quite significantly. I'm very pro-vax in general and for covid, but I hope the UK doesn't start anything like this, seems like it would just have anyone digging their heels in and cause a lot of social unrest issues.

I find it bizarre that people are very anti this, but the consensus on the threads here about compulsory vaccination for health care workers is that they agree with that.

To me the two are very similar.

If you go down the path of making vaccination compulsory for some, you are not far off removing liberties of those who don't "comply with the rules".

@Geamhradheam. 14 people. 😂😂😂 I was thinking on a bit bigger scale than that. So generally people are happy, or at least accepting, of restrictions. Is it just your area that has a low vaccination rate? When you say one land, does that mean you're all going to be treated the same regardless of jab status?
Sorry to ask so many questions but I never get a chance to talk to people in other countries. And my friends here, well, we try not to discuss it at all! Lol.

@Stritzi
Unvaccinated people are allowed to go to work to the shops and allowed to exercise outside but can’t go to the cinema or hairdresser for example

Gosh, I sort of agree with the Austrian govt and see where they're coming from, but...when you see it written down so starkly, it does sound a bit reminiscent of Nazi Germany. Not, I hasten to add because I don't want anyone to feel insulted, that I'm likening them in actuality. No similarity at all. It's just the thought that they're allowed to do things to keep them alive, but not things to enjoy.
What is the general feeling about this? Quite supportive I would suppose?

[quote madisonbridges]@Geamhradheam. 14 people. 😂😂😂 I was thinking on a bit bigger scale than that. So generally people are happy, or at least accepting, of restrictions. Is it just your area that has a low vaccination rate? When you say one land, does that mean you're all going to be treated the same regardless of jab status?
Sorry to ask so many questions but I never get a chance to talk to people in other countries. And my friends here, well, we try not to discuss it at all! Lol.[/quote]
Sorry, I'm in Italy, I just was watching about Austria on the news here.
@Stritzi is in Austria and I'm interested too! (Not least because I was thinking of Ryanairing my way to Vienna before Christmas!)

@madisonbridges @Geamhradh well as you said where I am has quite a large anti vax community but generally everyone is very against it , the word that get used here a lot if black mail which it does feel like , it is your choice to vaccinate or not but if you don’t you can’t access anything. There was definetly opposition within the government itself and it’s felt horrible dividing people like this. Though if you are vaccinated popping over to Vienna is not a problem , it really is life as normal for the vaccinated ( masks are compulsory but that never really ended )

Argh sorry for the spelling in my last post Typing and juggling a teething DD

Austria has a much lower vaccination rate than the UK, and cases are rising sharply there, so that is why the government is imposing the measures.

I don't think it will happen here because we have a much higher vaccination rate and our cases are declining.

I know what to do if this comes to the UK.

It won’t. U.K. gov couldn’t even bring themselves to do the first lockdown properly. They won’t do this.

There's a lot of people on this board that would be loving it!

This is nonsense, peddled by people who feel the only way they can justify their own lack of awareness of the issue and don’t want to ever do anything about Covid, is to belittle and make up fantasy about those who don’t want to ignore the pandemic.

Also in Austria. It’s not as dramatic as the news makes out in the uk. It’s only two areas so far, and it’s unvaccinated only.
For those vaccinated they can carry on as before.

Thanks!
We're double-vaccinated, about to be boostered and haven't taken our masks off since 9/3/20

@SolasAnla

Am i correct in saying everyone in Austria has to register themselves with the local Police when they move homes and that they have to carry ID?

So being able to cross-reference person, place and vax status would in theory easy.
Only requiring the vax data be added to the existing information

i think that kind of registration is common in many european countries, and probably others too. i believe you can't buy property in thailand if you are not a national. this registration regime with mandatory ID cards to be carried at all times, is thought to be one reason why so many people are wanting to come to uk, rather than stay in france. easier to get lost, go unofficial.

@PokemonGoGoGo

I find it bizarre that people are very anti this, but the consensus on the threads here about compulsory vaccination for health care workers is that they agree with that.

To me the two are very similar.

If you go down the path of making vaccination compulsory for some, you are not far off removing liberties of those who don't "comply with the rules".

The core difference is being proportionate to risk. If someone is frail elderly, undergoing cancer treatment, have pneumonia, poorly from another disease or otherwise health compromised then many things could kill them; generally people unwell like this get advice to be exceptionally careful around other diseases. Hepatitis B vaccine has been mandatory for healthcare staff due to the particular risk of Hep B to vulnerable patients. Covid is far more likely to kill this person than flu (not mandatory), so its vaccine has been put in the mandatory category like Hep B but flu vaccine still isn't. The most frail and vulnerable are also unlikely to be able to wear FFP2/3 masks at all times in care homes and hospitals to protect themselves.

Meanwhile an unvaccinated infected person doesn't pose a huge risk to children nor vaccinated adults who are going around shops, cinemas etc. Especially given that for casual contact it is easy for people to wear FFP2/3 masks in public to protect themselves if they need to. Unvaccinated infected are actually most likely to infect family and friend visitors in the home.

Everyone can draw a different line for risk and being proportionate. Personally I can see why it's important for the very frail and immune compromised to have additional protection, but can't sign up to the removal of freedoms across the board for the minimal risk reduction that would bring.

@Geamhradh

Thanks! We're double-vaccinated, about to be boostered and haven't taken our masks off since 9/3/20

do you remember what you still look like, and your friends, neighbours.

@Geamhradhea. Sorry, I did realise you were from Italy so I was asking about restrictions there with you. Particularly because you said your region had such a low vaccination rate.

Meanwhile an unvaccinated infected person doesn't pose a huge risk to children nor vaccinated adults who are going around shops, cinemas etc. Especially given that for casual contact it is easy for people to wear FFP2/3 masks in public to protect themselves if they need to. Unvaccinated infected are actually most likely to infect family and friend visitors in the home.

I get what people say about small risk, but it is the big consequence.

If you were going into a supermarket and were told there was a 1 in 1000 chance that you would interact with someone and that would kill your neighbour. Would you do it? Would the shopping you needed be worth risking their life? Then if you were told, but if you wear a mask then the risk would drop to 1 in 500,000. Would you do it then?

*not saying those are the actual odds with Covid, just as an example of the risk v consequence v mitigations.

[quote madisonbridges]@Geamhradhea. Sorry, I did realise you were from Italy so I was asking about restrictions there with you. Particularly because you said your region had such a low vaccination rate.[/quote]
no, it's the Friuli region with lower rates, we're in Puglia and our rollout was very (and a bit surprising if I'm honest!) efficient. Over 12s 91% fully vaccinated over 60s 96%, over 70s 98% as of yesterday.
I'm 55 and had AZ second dose on 3/5 so it's time for our boosters. Govt announced yesterday that from 1/12 all over 40s can go to GP/pharmacy to have it, if not the maxi hubs.
Restrictions are still pretty much in force and enforced, in that masks are worn and Covid passes need to be shown. Healthcare workers and teachers have had to be obligatorily vaccinated since the spring. You now need a Covid pass to enter the workplace but if you choose not to be vaccinated you can get one of those with a negative test (only lasts for 48 hours though) or a certificate of recovery which lasts for 180 days.
Cases are rising- boosters are needed and it's winter obvs. Positivity rate fluctuates between 1 and 1.6% over the last couple of weeks. Home tests aren't allowed, and all results are automatically uploaded to the health database.
I saw a survey a few weeks ago saying 66% were in favour of the measures, 16% against and 18% had no opinion.

Oh, and if you're exempt, you need to produce a certified doctor's letter.

@MRex HCWs are vaccinated against Hep B to protect them (if they have needle stick injuries, get bitten by patients etc), it’s not to protect the patient. Plus the COVID vaccines do not prevent infection or passing it on - I’ve just had COVID and I’m triple vaccinated.

In this country a much more sensible approach would be for contacts of cases to isolate. That would be a much better and safer approach than having fully vaccinated HCW working with vulnerable patients. Contacts are about 5 times more likely to have COVID and can still pass it on. I’d rather have an unvaccinated HCW looking after me than one who has a household full of COVID at home.

our rollout was very (and a bit surprising if I'm honest!) efficient

😂 I used to teach English as foreign Language. I've taught loads of Italians, and, although they're my favourite nationality, if I ever saw 'Italian' and 'efficiency' in the same sentence, I'd be reading it twice. 😂😂😂

Those are impressively high rates. I guess you're doing quite standard stuff apart from your compulsory vaccination of teachers. But it's good to see the vast majority are not against what's happening. I think it gives people on the whole, a lot more confidence when they see people around them getting on with the rules too.
I can only see one problem really, how are they still managing to chatter so much and so loudly with masks on?

@Stritzi @alexdgr8

Thanks

Even more loudly! and after living here for 27 years, it's the first time I've used the two words so often as well!
Wrt the rules, I think as the posters in Austria said, sure, there are protests, some people are always going to protest, but as in the first lockdown when we really truly were locked down, and people (on MN) were getting disgusted on our behalf, the people here just got on with it. It needed to happen. We'd seen what had happened in the north. In that first lockdown, as a direct result of it, between March and end of May 2020 there were 6 deaths and 31 cases of Covid in this town(11 in one extended family who had someone leave Milan and come down the day before the regional borders were closed) I'm no lockdown lover, but if I had to be locked down to do my bit to prevent any deaths, then good.
It sounded (probably) worse from outside than we ever perceived it from inside.

Going to go against the grain here. Why should the majority of the vaccinated population curtail their freedoms and accept the loss of availability of hospital healthcare just so the unvaccinated can run the risk of infection which we all pay for?
I was in France last week and if you dont have a covid pass you dont get in anywhere like restaurants, hairdressers, museums etc. End of.
If you dont want to get vaccinated thats fine but then you dont get the chance to partake in vaccinated life. Two years of this because most infection is driven by pools of infected unvaccinated people. Im done with it.

@Skinnytailedsquirrel

The thing is that here in the UK we can see that the majority won't do what's asked unless it's law.

I haven't been on public transport since this started because of selfish idiots without masks and not giving a damn.

People wandering around John Lewis pushing past me without having the sense to wear masks.

We are a truly selfish country now.

We are now also a truly sickening country with the level of hate and and nastiness being shown.

IMO people both sides are selfish.. you can argue it's selfish not to wear a mask, you can also argue it's selfish to expect people to wear a mask. It's about half and half I see now. My view is we all can make our own choices. What is definitely selfish is the vaccination of children who have extremely low risk.