Austria unvaccinated lockdown

[MRex]

How is this expected to actually work in practice? I have only seen basic UK news articles, interested mostly to understand the practical implications.

Personal views without knowing detail: I simply don't see any way this can be achieved without infringing on personal freedoms of unvaccinated and vaccinated quite significantly. I'm very pro-vax in general and for covid, but I hope the UK doesn't start anything like this, seems like it would just have anyone digging their heels in and cause a lot of social unrest issues.

@Sian73 I am very sorry to hear about your son. I think when there's some sort of medical background like that you do question things more, because you have no choice. Medical treatments are far from straightforward and become a minefield and a lot of doctors really don't have a good understanding of the issues, although the best ones will admit that freely.

The bulk of my injury was neurological as well and since then any medication at all is Russian roulette.

Despite a letter from my consultant to that effect, the devolved government where I live deem that not sufficient grounds for exemption.

I keep wondering how many so called anto vaxxers are people like you and I, or people that have had a really rough time or become ill or injured from their first doses of the vaccine. To now be demonised, humiliated and excluded.

And you're right about a lot of the time of discussion here. Some posters deliberately set out to sneer and humiliate. Constant jibes about being thick. I'm genuinely not stupid, I have a first class STEM degree for what that's worth, but its an ongoing theme.

Tbh I am actually starting to feel radicalised.

@sourcherie thank you.

I don’t think an article like that allows for a changing situation.

What was proportionate earlier may not be now, and most likely will be less so next year.

So it seems a very fixed assessment on a hugely changing situation

Even someone such as Chris Whitty would advise being adaptable to the stage of pandemic - and it’s not that he is anti restrictions but that they are not appropriate as they were at one time

@MarshaBradyo I do agree, but I do think Covid has, unfortunately, brought out some darker personality traits in people. And I include myself in that. Even when driving, I find people less tolerant.
I’m not referring to anyone here, but there is a lot of misinformation being shared online - and I don’t know what drives people to do that. For example I saw a photoshopped vaccine packet etc…

@MaxNormal I actually forget why I’m so dubious about vaccines because our circumstances are our normal now. But there must be many people with disabilities, chronic conditions, bad reactions, vaccine injuries etc who are steering clear from the Covid vaccines out of precaution. And the irony is these are the people most likely to want to thoroughly research and make an informed decision.

It’s hugely worrying to hear that your medical condition is not classed as an exemption. Is that what you said? Sorry I’m typing on my phone now and can’t scroll back.

My worst fear with this is that vaccines will become mandatory and my son’s condition will not be counted as an exemption.

[quote SpringKit]@MarshaBradyo I do agree, but I do think Covid has, unfortunately, brought out some darker personality traits in people. And I include myself in that. Even when driving, I find people less tolerant.
I’m not referring to anyone here, but there is a lot of misinformation being shared online - and I don’t know what drives people to do that. For example I saw a photoshopped vaccine packet etc…[/quote]
It’s more a mix for me

I’m struck by the sacrifices people have made over a long period of time, often not for themselves or family but other people

But some odd stuff emerges online but I’m not really seeing / viewing it

@Sian73 I honestly don't think they'll be mandatory per se, not even the French have gone that far, however it's clear that life can be made very uncomfortable to the point where they may as well be. I dont think it will come to that in the UK but its been unnerving seeing how far other countries are going.

My consultant says I'm exempt, but according to the Scottish Government green book there are about zero grounds for exemption.
Anaphylaxis from the first shot? Just have the second in hospital! A clot? Just take the other type!

They are talking about allowing testing as well if they widen the scope of the vaxpass so that's something I guess.

@sourcherie

The utter, utter shite that's spouted on here, which is then taken at face value, is unbelievable. Austrians are used to being treated like victorian children? They're especially compliant/strict? What the hell are you talking about? I've lived here for 21 years and 1) I've been asked to show my driving licence once in that time, when I (rightly) got pulled over for performing a dangerous manoeuvre in my car , and 2) the Austrians have a large "grey zone" of understanding with regards to any rules or regulations, which means nothing is black and white and everything open to interpretation. They're massive, often annoying rule breakers. They also - despite being a nation of hypochondriacs - have an ingrained deep suspicion of doctors and pharmaceuticals, they never take painkillers, get homeopathic remedies and 'globuli' (sugar pills) from the chemist and their cure for anything from sprained knee to an episiotomy is to smear cream cheese (Topfen) all over it. That combined with the minority but loud far-right anti-tax element means that vaccination rates are still really low here and we are seeing a massive 4th wave.

I live in Vienna but people who live in the countryside have always maintained it's just "Panikmacher" and anyone whose immune system is ok will be fine. Rates have now exploded in the county with a strong right-wing presence that has been banging on about civil liberties and body autonomy etc.. Austria has one of the highest amount of ICU beds per 100000 people in Europe (approx 22 compared with 6 in the UK) and the healthcare system has held up well so far, but it's now out of control.

Something has to be done. I don't know if this is the right way - I would have preferred to see "vaccinated or pcr tested" - but it's ten days and the idea that it's some sort of police state is just laughable.

There was incidentally an article in the Suddeutsche Zeitung the other day, where they interviewed ICU nurses who said that at the beginning of the pandemic, patients were just grateful to be alive, now they're complaining about bodily autonomy, they complain about having to be proned and about the oxygen tubes up their nose and that it's too loud because of all the coughing (!), asking for Klangschalen and reflexology - don't know what it's called in English, it's one of those bowls that they hit with a gong at the end of yoga.

FUCK OFF! I mean, Jesus Christ. Get a grip. We're all so spoilt, we have amazing vaccines, we have pcr-testing (free for everyone in Austria), we know masks work. And all people can do is whinge on about their damaged civil liberties. (And contrary to the comments here about how compliant the Austrians are, a section of society has been holding protests every week since the pandemic began).

It's shit. Covid is shit. Every country is trying to handle it in their own way. The UK is no shining example. But if you're going to comment on what other countries are doing, get your facts straight.

Similar here in South Germany. Generally the infection rates in the cities are much lower than in the countryside, even though we are more exposed to other people. It’s down to vaccination rates and following covid prevention guidelines. We have an unfortunate combination of Klangschalen types and far-right/Querdenker Covid deniers coming together and fucking it up for the rest of us.

ChaToilLeam this whole thing is a bloody wet dream for the far-right; immigration isn’t a vote-winning topic for them any more so they’ve got a new one. Fear/populism/social media - we have a veritable bingo.

They're massive, often annoying rule breakers. They also - despite being a nation of hypochondriacs - have an ingrained deep suspicion of doctors and pharmaceuticals, they never take painkillers, get homeopathic remedies and 'globuli' (sugar pills) from the chemist and their cure for anything from sprained knee to an episiotomy is to smear cream cheese (Topfen) all over it. That combined with the minority but loud far-right anti-tax element means that vaccination rates are still really low here and we are seeing a massive 4th wave.

@sourcherie
Absolutely perfectly said! One thing that is notable about Austria is that despite an incredibly advanced healthcare system, people are discouraged from taking real medicine on an everyday basis and there is a flourishing market for homeopathy and herbal remedies. It's incredibly difficult to even get hold of paracetamol. Doctors are also very averse to prescribing medicines, especially to babies or children. Babies receiving anti-reflux medication is almost unheard of, so most parents simply battle through several months of "colic".

The one upside is that there is very low potential for medication misuse. Something like the opioid crisis is simply not possible here because all painkillers and prescription medications are incredibly guarded. It's actually normal to be offered 500mg paracetamol as pain relief following major surgery. They give it to you intravenously which supposedly increases the effect. A friend was given that after thyroid surgery and I was offered paracetamol after a c-section.

Sadly, anecdotally, a lot of anti-vaxxers are those who take pride in "I never even take painkillers for a headache, I refuse to put the vaccine in my body" types. There are many, many of those around...predominantly females from rural areas and with conservative or right-wing leaning views. Lots of those are mothers who obviously refuse to allow their entire family to get vaccinated. Another large faction of Austrian anti-vaxxers are leftist hippie types and believe in esoterica, yoga, anti-capitalism etc. The cumulative effect is what has gotten us to where we are today. Every single one of those people are convinced they are not the problem, but in total they've dragged the country back into the shits again.

Paracetamol + Ibuprofen are normal after surgery in the UK too. I had them after caesarean, my dad did after his heart op.

CupcakeTowers EXACTLY. Paracetamol only available from the pharmacy. I know so many people - Austrian dh included - who wouldn’t dream of taking anything for a headache, they’ll just struggle through with it for days. About 10 years ago, I had my cornea removed and had to lie in a darkened room for two days; the pain was excruciating, I felt like someone had thrown acid in my face, I couldn’t open my eyes or even move my head. I had paracetamol but it didn’t touch the sides - I asked dh to go to the pharmacy and get something with codeine in it. Nope, no way, not without a prescription, even though he took the hospital report with him.

Are you on the wiener wunderweiber FB board? Anytime anyone asks a question about ANY health issue - literally anything, could be vomiting blood, sudden loss of vision, sepsis, a broken bone - there will immediately be a flood of people suggesting homeopathy, kinesiology, acupuncture, Topfen.

I think it’s madness and terrifying. I work for the NHS so bad both vaccines but reluctant to have booster as first two effected my periods so I’m worried what else it’s done. My husband won’t have his vaccines and whilst I worry for him, I worry about him having it too after hearing fit young men having cardiac arrests etc. I just don’t know what we are meant to do for the best … STOP THE WORLD I WANT TO GET OFF!!

@sourcherie
Same here in Italy. And pay about £6 for 12 paracetamol.
Except I don't. I bulk buy online to dp's hypochondriac, yet strangely reluctant to take anything, horror.
I'll offer him 2 paracetamol or ibuprofen from my stash and he'll go "I don't want to take anything". Then eventually he'll succumb but only ever wants one. "I'm not taking TWO!"
Yet first sniffle (as I root around for a lemsip) "ring the doctor!!!!!"

That's fascinating re attitudes to medication in Austria and Italy!

@Theplantisgrowing

That's fascinating re attitudes to medication in Austria and Italy!

I am mystified and can't tell what's a joke.

Cream cheese is a joke, right?

their cure for anything from sprained knee to an episiotomy is to smear cream cheese (Topfen) all over it

There are enough shortages around here and I love cream cheese. If I can't find any in the shops, I'm coming after those blinking Austrians. Don't waste cream cheese.

It's actually normal to be offered 500mg paracetamol as pain relief following major surgery

Er, same in the UK. I had a spine fusion with screws into my vertebrae. I was given 2 paracetamol. But what I want to know is, where was my allotment of cream cheese?!!

I haven't read all of the details but it doesn't sound as strict as the rules in Canada.

We have vaccine passports for all but essential services.

Federal employees will be fired if they don't comply .

On a provincial level health care workers are also being mandated and will lost their jobs if they don't comply.

As well as that the unvaccinated aren't allowed to travel by plane ,train, or boat.

There isn't an option to provide a negative test so effectively Canadian's can't leave the country unless they are vaccinated

@madisonbridges

It's actually normal to be offered 500mg paracetamol as pain relief following major surgery

Er, same in the UK. I had a spine fusion with screws into my vertebrae. I was given 2 paracetamol. But what I want to know is, where was my allotment of cream cheese?!!

I had lesser spinal stuff and was given huge prescriptions of co codamol even to take home. Post first follow up appointment, they told me i could take more!

Were you unlucky with your consultant?

PS madison like you, I was offered no cream cheese, which strikes me as a shame.

@DaisyNGO. I won't have a word said against my surgeon, I went from almost being in a wheelchair in quite a bit of pain. To being able to walk as far as I like and never having any pain. He is a god. But, er, yeah, I missed out on the good stuff. As it happens I seem to have a high pain threshold so it wasn't any problem for me. I guess I was lucky. Hey, maybe he'd smeared cream cheese on the fusion? That would explain it.

[quote madisonbridges]@DaisyNGO. I won't have a word said against my surgeon, I went from almost being in a wheelchair in quite a bit of pain. To being able to walk as far as I like and never having any pain. He is a god. But, er, yeah, I missed out on the good stuff. As it happens I seem to have a high pain threshold so it wasn't any problem for me. I guess I was lucky. Hey, maybe he'd smeared cream cheese on the fusion? That would explain it.[/quote]
That must be the explanation.

Seriously, i feel for you. Sounds like a different situation, mine was the result of an accident, so all very sudden.

The painkillers upset my stomach so any cream cheese consumption might have made that worse.

Seriously though...for surgical wounds? Are they using it as a base for antiseptic? Are we being trolled?

@ktel1

I haven't read all of the details but it doesn't sound as strict as the rules in Canada.

We have vaccine passports for all but essential services.

Federal employees will be fired if they don't comply .

On a provincial level health care workers are also being mandated and will lost their jobs if they don't comply.

As well as that the unvaccinated aren't allowed to travel by plane ,train, or boat.

There isn't an option to provide a negative test so effectively Canadian's can't leave the country unless they are vaccinated

I'd feel more confident with a negative test

What about things like local buses?

Has a time limit been placed on the vaccination ID, is it reviewed at any point?

"Sadly, anecdotally, a lot of anti-vaxxers are those who take pride in "I never even take painkillers for a headache, I refuse to put the vaccine in my body" types. There are many, many of those around...predominantly females from rural areas and with conservative or right-wing leaning views. Lots of those are mothers who obviously refuse to allow their entire family to get vaccinated. Another large faction of Austrian anti-vaxxers are leftist hippie types and believe in esoterica, yoga, anti-capitalism etc. The cumulative effect is what has gotten us to where we are today. Every single one of those people are convinced they are not the problem, but in total they've dragged the country back into the shits again."

Where to even start with the above comments.

The amount of hatred ,intolerance and moral superiority is breath taking.