To think that unvaccinated people whining about rights and freedoms when they can’t go to a concert

[Anon778833]

Are entitled? I am so sick of hearing the vaccine hesitant / covid deniers say that it makes no difference if you’re vaccinated, so they should be allowed to go around doing exactly what they want even though they don’t care about the effects on other people or don’t believe the virus exists.

The government has not said that they will restrict medical treatments or impose financial penalties on people who don’t get vaccinated. I wouldn’t agree with that. That would be taking away rights.

But I personally don’t think that it’s a god given right to attend clubs, theatres and to go on holiday if you refuse to comply with health measures at the height of a pandemic.

Consequence- they can't go to places where they are likely to be in close contact with a large amount of people.

Or they can be tested, which would actually potentially make someone a ‘safer’ person to be around than someone vaccinated but not tested recently. If the aim is to keep people safe and make sure no one with covid is in contact with a large amount of people, this is the sensible approach. Of course if the aim is to punish the non vaccinated then preventing them attending large gatherings is the way to go.
Evidently not everyone is aiming for safety, some seem to want to punish.

@XenoBitch

YABU I don't understand how anyone can think this division of people into vaccinated and unvaccinated is acceptable. Just look at the arguments it causes online. The world has lost its mind.

Possibly because of the number of unvaccinated people in hospital that are blocking beds and causing major operations for cancer and other serious illnesses to be cancelled. If they're under 60, they're extremely unlikely to have ended up in hospital if vaccinated.

I think people who aren't bothered by this have lost their minds.

I know of two (large) groups that are serious anti vaxxers on my FB. They put up messages about oppression (nazi Germany-type posts) on a daily basis. No dissenting voices dare post as they get absolutely shouted down and insulted. It's like a cult.

As I held his hand he said: “I want the machine. I want the machine and I want the adrenaline, can I have the adrenaline now?”
I didn’t know what to say, I explained “it’s too late for the adrenaline now, but we can talk about ventilation to keep your closing airways open” but in the 30 second that followed, he died, in front of me.

[quote MyMabel]@Itsnotover
A bit hypocritical to talk about borderline terrorism then post that. Anyone can write a short story for goodness sake, stop scaremongering [/quote]
It certainly is terrorism when people are threatening to kill NHS staff who are trying to do their best.

So you think the accounts on Humans of Covid 19 are lies?

@MyMabel Good news they weren't more seriously ill and indeed interesting that it was the younger ones who avoided it.

I wouldn't try and infer any data from my example. What it brought to the fore for me though was the real vaccine hesitancy is amongst 20-something year olds which I hadn't come across until then. I'd not really thought about it. Probably assumed they'd been jabbed. It's none of my business anyway. But it came to light when so many fell ill with it. They've been quite happy to say they didn't have the jab because they were concerned about ungrounded risks. My son's key worker says she's never felt so ill and wishes she'd just had it.

So that's my anecdata of one about how I assumed people were getting on and getting jabbed, but actually aren't

I only know of a few people who don't want to be vaccinated but they aren't vocal about it. Their choice I suppose as long as they know the risks and it doesn't stop the rest of us getting on with life. Stats show that 70% of hospital admissions for Covid are unvaccinated people. Speaks volumes if you ask me. Good luck to them this winter.

@Geamhradh

A drug addict overdosing doesn't stop me visiting my mother in her carehome. A diabetic doesn't stop my child going to school.

Straw man arguments.

This is in regards to the ‘they are overburdened the NHS with their bad choices’ argument.

Your argument is different. FYI COVID is endemic and not going away.

So how are we gonna live with it so you can visit your vulnerable family members? Maybe you can never visit a care home again.

Also? COViD at its height does not stop your child from going to school. It never should have

Where’s the point we say, Enough?

Governments should not have the power to remove choices about what citizens do with their bodies. That’s allowing too much power to the state.

That said, the anti vaccine brigade are not following the science, and are not considering their responsibilities to others in society.

@Itsnotover I could say the same for the poster upthread who suggested putting the unvaccinated through a meat grinder and using them as fertilisation.

Threats aren’t cool but it’s not one sided.

@CBroads it's very wrong to compare this to nazi Germany. It comes across as ignorant and hugely disrespectful.

@DayKay last thing I read was that natural antibodies wane significantly after around 3-4 months in a large number of people in the study. Can't remember where that info was but it was an article in a decent newspaper (possibly NYT as I follow them for work).

I wouldn't rely on them for long. I know people who had Covid last year (alpha) and caught it again this year (delta) and said Delta was far worse.

@SomewhereSouthOfHeaven

Consequence- they can't go to places where they are likely to be in close contact with a large amount of people.

Or they can be tested, which would actually potentially make someone a ‘safer’ person to be around than someone vaccinated but not tested recently. If the aim is to keep people safe and make sure no one with covid is in contact with a large amount of people, this is the sensible approach. Of course if the aim is to punish the non vaccinated then preventing them attending large gatherings is the way to go.
Evidently not everyone is aiming for safety, some seem to want to punish.

Or it could be that they don't want unvaccinated people to be exposed to large viral loads in a busy place and end up with a serious dose of Covid in hospital blocking operations for others. The fact that they were exercising personal risk assessment is no consolation to those looking after them and those who can't access hospital treatment as a result.

Why would anyone have a problem with a vaccine passport? You need a passport to go aboad, used to also need an E111, travel insurance, dirvers licence with picture, ID to purchase some products. I personally know someone, not old,no underlying health issues who caught Covid early 2020, is now 24 care in a nursing home. I was nursing had to have Hep ABC, TB, blood tests on an annual basis, no vaccines no job there.

If everyone did the ‘right’ thing with every aspect of their health...so they had the vaccine, kept fit and healthy, didn’t do things to put their health at risk, then we’d have lots more hospital beds. Why is it that the only group of people taking up beds being singled out is unvaccinated people. Why are we not angry at other people having an affect? I could maybe get on board with it then.

So again because I haven’t seen anyone vaccine-hesitant answer this: how many bars, restaurants and theatres do you think would be open without the vaccine programme?

When the Delta variant hit the country, what do you think the alternative to vaccines could have been? It takes a much heavier toll than the original strains we had in 2020.

So, given that enough people having the vaccines is the reason that these venues can open, why do people think they have a right to refuse the vaccine for themselves but still take advantage of everything that the vaccines have allowed to reopen? I don’t understand how anyone squares that worldview with themselves. Surely they understand that if everyone exercised their right to refuse the vaccine, no one would be going out to bars at all?

I've not actually heard any unvaccinated people whining about not being able to go to a concert.

It's been vaccinated people (like me) "whining" that we don't want to faff around with vaccine passports.

Or vaccinated people whining that they don't want to sit next to unvaccinated people (somehow not understanding that not being vaccinated doesn't mean you have the illness - and it's a deeply inconsistent view to not trust the vaccine will protect you but demand that others have it).

We have around 90% of the adult population vaccinated in the UK and we do not need vaccine passports. In Denmark they've now removed them in most cases due to their high vaccination rates. In Wales, they intend to introduce them on 11th October, presumably by which time everyone who wants to be will be done, so what's the point?

As for unvaccinated people ending up in hospital - well so do people who abuse tobacco, alcohol and junk food, drugs, drive recklessly, run on trails and break an ankle, go ski-ing and break a leg. Where do you stop on behaviour which can be self-damaging?

@NoOtherShadeOfBlue

So again because I haven’t seen anyone vaccine-hesitant answer this: how many bars, restaurants and theatres do you think would be open without the vaccine programme?

When the Delta variant hit the country, what do you think the alternative to vaccines could have been? It takes a much heavier toll than the original strains we had in 2020.

So, given that enough people having the vaccines is the reason that these venues can open, why do people think they have a right to refuse the vaccine for themselves but still take advantage of everything that the vaccines have allowed to reopen? I don’t understand how anyone squares that worldview with themselves. Surely they understand that if everyone exercised their right to refuse the vaccine, no one would be going out to bars at all?

Answer came there none…..🤷🏻‍♀️

Surely they understand that if everyone exercised their right to refuse the vaccine, no one would be going out to bars at all

That view assumes that people have the vaccine for the good for society. And despite MNers' best efforts at sanctimonious virtue-signalling, that is rubbish. Nearly everyone has the vaccine for their own benefit and their benefit alone (and same with childhood vaccines - for the good of "their children).

@SomewhereSouthOfHeaven

If everyone did the ‘right’ thing with every aspect of their health...so they had the vaccine, kept fit and healthy, didn’t do things to put their health at risk, then we’d have lots more hospital beds. Why is it that the only group of people taking up beds being singled out is unvaccinated people. Why are we not angry at other people having an affect? I could maybe get on board with it then.

Maybe because it's a much more difficult thing to overcome an eating disorder or a drug addiction than it is to have a vaccine, which is over in seconds and does not require a complete lifestyle change.

YABU to just say they’re entitled. They’re also stupid and selfish, and shouldn’t be allowed to leave their houses imo.

@NoOtherShadeOfBlue

So again because I haven’t seen anyone vaccine-hesitant answer this: how many bars, restaurants and theatres do you think would be open without the vaccine programme?

When the Delta variant hit the country, what do you think the alternative to vaccines could have been? It takes a much heavier toll than the original strains we had in 2020.

So, given that enough people having the vaccines is the reason that these venues can open, why do people think they have a right to refuse the vaccine for themselves but still take advantage of everything that the vaccines have allowed to reopen? I don’t understand how anyone squares that worldview with themselves. Surely they understand that if everyone exercised their right to refuse the vaccine, no one would be going out to bars at all?

There are countries and regions that did not close down and yes, had gatherings and events that were not dependent on vaccine status.

Once you jab the vulnerable, why wait any longer?

As for unvaccinated people ending up in hospital - well so do people who abuse tobacco, alcohol and junk food, drugs, drive recklessly, run on trails and break an ankle, go ski-ing and break a leg. Where do you stop on behaviour which can be self-damaging?

1. The unvaccinated people all end up in the same place in the hospital

1. Getting better from alcohol / drug / food / smoking addictions is arguably more complex than having a shot in your arm which takes 5 seconds and is in most cases safe.

Many people cannot be vaccinated until they develop one for stupidity!

I'm double vaxxed but I don't care if other people aren't and I don't think anybody should be stopped from going anywhere. If you are vaccinated and the vaccines work, why are you worried about the non-vaxxed? Wear another mask if it bothers you so much!

Nearly everyone has the vaccine for their own benefit and their benefit alone exactly if corona had killed majority under 5s do you think the uptake in the over 70s would have been so high?