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To think that unvaccinated people whining about rights and freedoms when they can’t go to a concert
412

Itsnotover · 19/09/2021 20:30

Are entitled? I am so sick of hearing the vaccine hesitant / covid deniers say that it makes no difference if you’re vaccinated, so they should be allowed to go around doing exactly what they want even though they don’t care about the effects on other people or don’t believe the virus exists.

The government has not said that they will restrict medical treatments or impose financial penalties on people who don’t get vaccinated. I wouldn’t agree with that. That would be taking away rights.

But I personally don’t think that it’s a god given right to attend clubs, theatres and to go on holiday if you refuse to comply with health measures at the height of a pandemic.

OP's posts:
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milkyaqua · 24/09/2021 07:43

Quoting some bloke off the internet doesn't make it real

Make what real?

If you're going to comment at least make it an opinion you've come up with yourself

I have said multiple times on here since this pandemic began how stunned I am at the level of sociopathy prevalent in what seems a fairly large chunk of society, reflected on the coronavirus board and in the world at large. I quoted this man because it seemed very well put, and because he has other well-written essays on this topic others might find interesting to read.

I've known since I was about ten that the vast bulk of people are pretty stupid, but I always thought they were basically good people with good hearts. Seems it isn't so.

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UsedUpUsername · 24/09/2021 07:21

But if you know it can harm others who aren’t like you, and you still refuse to take the measures that reduce the risk of spreading the virus to them, you are a sociopath

Do you think this about flu? What about people who unknowingly spread STDs?

If you refuse a vaccine when you have no valid health reason to do so (as almost no one does), thereby keeping the virus alive longer by increasing the risk of mutations, you are saying that other people’s lives don’t matter to you

You take a vaccine to protect yourself. That’s how it’s always been. If you haven’t got the flu shot every year since becoming an adult, then frankly you need to back off.

And if you expected to be infected, hospitalized, and die, you would never take these risks

Not true. I have vulnerable family that is trying to prevent COVID by NPIs (I don’t think these are effective at all but it’s their choice to use them instead of vaccines)

That’s what these ICU confessions signify — that they care about their own lives quite a bit, whatever they might think of others

What we haven’t communicated is that COVID is dangerous to certain groups—we haven’t done enough to let overweight/obese people know they are particularly vulnerable. Maybe this would be more effective than shaming?

Now that it’s caught up with them, the tears flow, and the panic sets in their faces as they wonder what they’ve done to themselves

Sounds like you’re enjoying this. Do you feel the same way about a teen girl who took a risk on unprotected sex and ended up pregnant or with an STD?

Because they never wanted to die, they just didn’t care if other people did

Frankly, I don’t do health interventions with other people in mind. The vaccine is supposed to protect YOU. Why should we care if it protects anyone else? They are responsible adults. They can make the choices best suited for them.

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Whyevencare · 24/09/2021 07:12

[quote milkyaqua]"Most who refused to mask (and reject the vaccine now) are not full-blown virus deniers. Instead, they simply didn’t believe — and still don’t — that it can harm people like them.

But if you know it can harm others who aren’t like you, and you still refuse to take the measures that reduce the risk of spreading the virus to them, you are a sociopath.

If you refuse a vaccine when you have no valid health reason to do so (as almost no one does), thereby keeping the virus alive longer by increasing the risk of mutations, you are saying that other people’s lives don’t matter to you.

And if you expected to be infected, hospitalized, and die, you would never take these risks.

That’s what these ICU confessions signify — that they care about their own lives quite a bit, whatever they might think of others.

Now that it’s caught up with them, the tears flow, and the panic sets in their faces as they wonder what they’ve done to themselves.

Because they never wanted to die, they just didn’t care if other people did."

timjwise.medium.com/covid-anti-vaxxers-arent-a-maga-death-cult-it-s-worse-than-that-16d74186e46b[/quote]
Quoting some bloke off the internet doesn't make it real Confused

If you're going to comment at least make it an opinion you've come up with yourself Grin

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milkyaqua · 24/09/2021 06:06

"Most who refused to mask (and reject the vaccine now) are not full-blown virus deniers. Instead, they simply didn’t believe — and still don’t — that it can harm people like them.

But if you know it can harm others who aren’t like you, and you still refuse to take the measures that reduce the risk of spreading the virus to them, you are a sociopath.

If you refuse a vaccine when you have no valid health reason to do so (as almost no one does), thereby keeping the virus alive longer by increasing the risk of mutations, you are saying that other people’s lives don’t matter to you.

And if you expected to be infected, hospitalized, and die, you would never take these risks.

That’s what these ICU confessions signify — that they care about their own lives quite a bit, whatever they might think of others.

Now that it’s caught up with them, the tears flow, and the panic sets in their faces as they wonder what they’ve done to themselves.

Because they never wanted to die, they just didn’t care if other people did."

timjwise.medium.com/covid-anti-vaxxers-arent-a-maga-death-cult-it-s-worse-than-that-16d74186e46b

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UsedUpUsername · 23/09/2021 19:32

@Droite

www.news.yahoo.com/amphtml/black-lives-matter-greater-york-200600400.html

Not a whole interview but snippets of what he says are in this article. Reasons are about the same as any other vaccine hesitant person imo

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Droite · 23/09/2021 18:48

@UsedUpUsername

BLM is now having a protest in NYC about vaccine passports, good for them as you could argue that is an example of structural racism.

Black New Yorkers iirc are about 70% unvaxxed so it does restrict them disproportionately.

I take it that someone has pointed out that there's an easy remedy? What is their justification?
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CoopsMalloops · 23/09/2021 15:49

“JaniieJones

UsedUpUsername
BLM is now having a protest in NYC about vaccine passports, good for them as you could argue that is an example of structural racism.

Black New Yorkers iirc are about 70% unvaxxed so it does restrict them disproportionately.
'Structural racism'?! Wtaf.

If they won't have it whose fault is that?

And please don't cite historic medical negligence. Things that happened decades ago aren't always relevant. This virus has killed hundreds of thousands, it disproportionately affects black people so you'd think they'd be demanding it, not arguing against it”

Some reasons are that they are concerned about not being paid sick pay if they are unwell after getting the vaccine. Some places offering the vaccine ask for medical insurance information. Also for formal identification.

I don’t know how this would affect me as a white woman living in the UK, so can’t comment my views but those are some facts gleaned from a US survey on why some people are not taking up the offer of the vaccine.

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JaniieJones · 23/09/2021 12:26

'Can’t begin to tell you how this gets to me. He thinks in the end the vaccine will be worse than the virus and doesn’t want it in his body.'

That is awful. I can't imagine how hard it must be to CEV and to live with someone so stupid, surely he should do it for you and the dc if not for himself Flowers.

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JaniieJones · 23/09/2021 12:18

@UsedUpUsername

BLM is now having a protest in NYC about vaccine passports, good for them as you could argue that is an example of structural racism.

Black New Yorkers iirc are about 70% unvaxxed so it does restrict them disproportionately.

'Structural racism'?! Wtaf.

If they won't have it whose fault is that?

And please don't cite historic medical negligence. Things that happened decades ago aren't always relevant. This virus has killed hundreds of thousands, it disproportionately affects black people so you'd think they'd be demanding it, not arguing against it.
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Workinghardeveryday · 23/09/2021 11:04

I am CEV, dp won’t have vaccine. I am fully vaccinated but good chance won’t have given any cover for me.

Can’t begin to tell you how this gets to me. He thinks in the end the vaccine will be worse than the virus and doesn’t want it in his body.

Been together 13 years and 3 kids.

We don’t talk about it anymore, what’s the point, we go around in circles. He has watched too many YouTube videos and is adamant we are all wrong and he is right.

He does not want it end of - although he did mention 6 months ago if it meant we couldn’t go on holiday he would consider it because he would have no choice!

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UsedUpUsername · 23/09/2021 10:52

BLM is now having a protest in NYC about vaccine passports, good for them as you could argue that is an example of structural racism.

Black New Yorkers iirc are about 70% unvaxxed so it does restrict them disproportionately.

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userperuser · 23/09/2021 10:40

Your

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userperuser · 23/09/2021 10:39

Have you had it and if not why not?

Mind you’re own business

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wasthataburp · 23/09/2021 10:38

@userperuser

I hate vaccine pushers. They sound like a bunch of self entitled c*s.

I'm sick of the vaccine pushers and anti vaxxers both pushing their opinions on people. It's up to the individuals to make their own medical choices based on their individual circumstances. Both annoy me equally
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wasthataburp · 23/09/2021 10:35

Hmmmm most of my friends have not had the vaccine but they are certainly not entitled or moaning about not attending concerts?! Thanks im sure if they were they bothered they would just get it.

Where are you seeing all these entitled people OP?

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AlixandraTheGreat · 23/09/2021 10:29

@TheKeatingFive

Anti-vaxxers, as a group, shouldn't be described as 'vulnerable'. Ever.

Well they’re far from an homogenous group, but I think your implicit assumption here is unfair. There are plenty of people in the anti vaxxer group who have been badly treated by authority and/or the medical establishment and yes that’s a kind of vulnerability.

You know that wasn't what I meant by 'vulnerability'. I'd term what you are describing as 'sensitivity'. They have issues with authority and they distrust science. These may stem from simple misunderstandings to the more complex sourcing of information from the wrong channels.

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JaniieJones · 23/09/2021 10:23

@userperuser

I hate vaccine pushers. They sound like a bunch of self entitled c*s.

Self entitled? Well yes, I feel that my family and friends are entitled to have access to critical care should they need it. We had ICUs practically taking over entire hospitals to look after those ill with covid last year! now thanks to those that have had the vaccine things have improved dramatically. Not so much if you're in areas with a low uptake.

Lockdown, restrictions all over thanks to a bunch of self entitled cunts 🙄 (you can say cunts on here no need for **)

Have you had it and if not why not?
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AlixandraTheGreat · 23/09/2021 10:20

@riveted1

Great examples of how the suspicion surrounding vaccines, minimising of the impact of infectious disease, and general misinformation is not new to coronavirus *@hamstersarse*

Crazy to see the same posters posting the same points even 10 years ago


Absolutely. I only recognised 2-3 posters' names, though, including 'bubbleymummy' which I'm assuming is 'bumbleymummy' as the posting style and sentiment is exactly the same.
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userperuser · 23/09/2021 10:08

I hate vaccine pushers. They sound like a bunch of self entitled c*s.

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JaniieJones · 23/09/2021 09:40

'The whole anti-vaxx hate is a really new thing'

But it has a direct impact on us that's why many people go 🙄🙄🙄 when someone whines 'well it's my body n my rulez'.

You can argue to til the cows come home that 'fatties' use nhs resources too but we don't have ICUs having to quadruple their capacity overnight to accommodate an outbreak of obesity. These demands are figured into nhs budgets and service provision etc.

I know people in an area with 50% double vaccine rates. And surprise surprise their icus are already creaking under the strain, so if anyone else need critical care they may well not get it.

I don't hate anti vaxxers I just think they are incredible stupid, pathetic and self absorbed.

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riveted1 · 23/09/2021 09:30

Great examples of how the suspicion surrounding vaccines, minimising of the impact of infectious disease, and general misinformation is not new to coronavirus @hamstersarse

Crazy to see the same posters posting the same points even 10 years ago

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hamstersarse · 23/09/2021 09:14

Example here of threads from days gone by....just normal discussion about a vaccine. I think Swine Flu was more deadly for children too? Might be wrong on that, can't remember

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/am_i_being_unreasonable/901666-to-consider-not-immunizing-ds-against-swine-39-flu

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/am_i_being_unreasonable/877551-to-be-dubious-about-the-swine-flu-jab?pg=3

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hamstersarse · 23/09/2021 09:07

The whole anti-vaxx hate is a really new thing. The thread that was posted on here from 2007 (?) about the swine flu vaccine (which I was on and was saying I'd had my child vaccinated - which I don't remember at all!) did not have ONE mention of this 'us versus them' anti-vax bullshit

The good old days eh.

I do wonder how we have got to this position - I guess it will be unpicked over time as emotions calm down. It's pretty gruesome right now though Sad

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TheKeatingFive · 23/09/2021 08:58

Anti-vaxxers, as a group, shouldn't be described as 'vulnerable'. Ever.

Well they’re far from an homogenous group, but I think your implicit assumption here is unfair. There are plenty of people in the anti vaxxer group who have been badly treated by authority and/or the medical establishment and yes that’s a kind of vulnerability.

Unless we try to unpick that and build trust among these groups we aren’t going to get anywhere. Calling them stupid, selfish, and doling out ‘punishments’ is only going to make our anti vaxxer issues worse in the long term.

But I’m not even sure the people shouting the loudest actually want to tackle the anti vaxxer problem. I suspect many of them just want to kick off.

I get the frustration, but it’s a complex issue and I don’t see much in the way of thoughtful approaches to solving it.

Tim Harford had a good article in the FT last weekend on it.

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AlixandraTheGreat · 23/09/2021 08:02

@TheKeatingFive

'Also' in that context can be construed a few different ways.

Christ on a bike. You understand my point now, yes?


As long as you understand mine Grin

Anti-vaxxers, as a group, shouldn't be described as 'vulnerable'. Ever.
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