To think that unvaccinated people whining about rights and freedoms when they can’t go to a concert

[Anon778833]

Are entitled? I am so sick of hearing the vaccine hesitant / covid deniers say that it makes no difference if you’re vaccinated, so they should be allowed to go around doing exactly what they want even though they don’t care about the effects on other people or don’t believe the virus exists.

The government has not said that they will restrict medical treatments or impose financial penalties on people who don’t get vaccinated. I wouldn’t agree with that. That would be taking away rights.

But I personally don’t think that it’s a god given right to attend clubs, theatres and to go on holiday if you refuse to comply with health measures at the height of a pandemic.

@NoOtherShadeOfBlue I’m vaccine hesitate; I completely understand that we wouldn’t be where we are today without the vaccine but at the end of the day everyone has a choice.

If I was to say that I believe if someone has an abortion they should never be allowed to have children again. Is that fair to take away their choice based on their personal medical decisions?

@Whatwouldscullydo that article is from last year in restrictions when one of the only "permitted" places to go was the supermarket.

Highly doubt when it was illegal that people would answer a survey saying "yeah I had 20 of my mates round for a drinking session and we got it from Charlie who works on the rigs" would they?

‘ As for unvaccinated people ending up in hospital - well so do people who abuse tobacco, alcohol and junk food, drugs, drive recklessly, run on trails and break an ankle, go ski-ing and break a leg. Where do you stop on behaviour which can be self-damaging?’
^

What a stupid nonsensical statement. Funnily enough being fat and unwell doesn’t put nursing staff at risk and require more thorough care.

Every infection leads to an increased chance of a virus mutation that will render vaccines useless. More chance of passing to others, including the vulnerable. Taking up hospital beds when it could be easily avoided. And overall just being selfish af.

So in that case, surely we should be concentrating on all the people in the world who are unvaccinated rather than worry about the relatively small number left in this country. If the borders were closed it would matter but as they aren't then surely you can't blame the small number here unvaccinated for any variant.

So, given that enough people having the vaccines is the reason that these venues can open, why do people think they have a right to refuse the vaccine for themselves but still take advantage of everything that the vaccines have allowed to reopen?

Because we can. If the government want to stop it, they need to do so. Until then people will go places. I do a test, I wear a mask. I sanitise my hands.

I don’t understand how anyone squares that worldview with themselves. Surely they understand that if everyone exercised their right to refuse the vaccine, no one would be going out to bars at all?*

Because everyone has as much ‘right’ to be in society and make choices as the next person. Moaning to unvaccinated people won’t change anything, lobby the government if you want them to change things.

@lockdownmadnessdotcom

Surely they understand that if everyone exercised their right to refuse the vaccine, no one would be going out to bars at all

That view assumes that people have the vaccine for the good for society. And despite MNers' best efforts at sanctimonious virtue-signalling, that is rubbish. Nearly everyone has the vaccine for their own benefit and their benefit alone (and same with childhood vaccines - for the good of "their children).

I'd had Covid already, so wasn't as worried about it for me personally, but I still was anxious to get the vaccine because I knew it reduced the likelihood of me getting it and reduced the likelihood of me passing it on to others. Even if that reduction is 30% that's still worth doing. And the level of viral load you'd pass on, also might affect how ill the person contracting it would get.

I'd rather be sanctimonious than selfish.

3rd paragraph should be bold.

Apparently if this mu variant mutates to make itself more spreadable like delta, we’re all in for some trouble.

Enough puff to talk about vaccines ajd ventilators whilst simultaneously 30 seconds from death without one?

Yeah don't go reading all that stuff and believing it. I mean have you forgotten the tik tok videos of apparently overworked police and NHS staff who seemingly also had time to choreograph amd film dance routines?

And of course people are going to be qRy of a government who at one point sent the elderly back to care homes to die and decided that no one disabled should receive a vent way befire it reached the point we had to start choosing.

No one is going to believe they actually give a shit now akd want to save them

@SusannaM

I hate the condemnation of people who aren't vaccinated. Don't get me wrong I've no time for the conspiracy, Covid deniers bunch, but I'm not comfortable with the pressure being put on people to be vaccinated.

I've had health problems since being vaccinated and believe me no doctors want to know, it is really brushed under the rug. I'm dreading the booster.

I also think the vaccination isn't what we were sold at first. No vaccine is 100%, I know that, but this one only seems to lessen the symptoms. Obviously that's a good thing, less death, less strain on the NHS. But I'm not convinced it stops you catching Corona or spreading it, I know too many fully vaccinated people who have tested positive and I'm pretty resigned to the fact that we will all get Corona at some point in our family, which worries me as DH is vulnerable.

I don't think we are going to get herd immunity with the vaccine, or that being vaccinated will stop the virus mutating, it's not like a polio vaccine where we can eliminate the virus. But more like a flu vaccine where scientists will have to keep altering the vaccine as the strain changes. We don't stigmatise people for not getting a flu vaccine.

Agree totally!

I know one anti vax in real life. Neighbour over the road. She makes some ridiculous claims about the untested, experimental vaccine and I laughed thinking she was joking. No-one could be that batshit. She was serious.

Online there are lots of conspiracy theorists, covid deniers and anti vax - they are like a cult and seem to spread their crap and want to recruit others. Ignore or throw facts at them. I unfriended one who spread the most stupid things and some really dangerous things. I assume poor mental health in people that use the sheeple word, spread anti vax rubbish or covid deniers, they obviously aren't rational people who can follow science but can concentrate on YouTube videos and spread them.

SO YANBU they refuse to help limit the spread of a virus and yet moan when their actions mean the restrictions go on longer. Batshit and so the natural consequences are either test more often to allow entry or don't allow entry to things that are not mandatory to life - concerts etc

[quote MyMabel]@NoOtherShadeOfBlue I’m vaccine hesitate; I completely understand that we wouldn’t be where we are today without the vaccine but at the end of the day everyone has a choice.

If I was to say that I believe if someone has an abortion they should never be allowed to have children again. Is that fair to take away their choice based on their personal medical decisions?[/quote]
The abortion comparison is bizarre! I’m not advocating forced jabs by the way, just saying that society has reopened because of vaccines and I can’t understand the mindset of someone who wants to reap all the benefits of that without playing their part. If everyone was so selfish, we’d still be in lockdown. If you don’t want the vaccine that’s your choice, but I can’t understand why you think it’s unfair to then not be allowed in the places that are only open because of vaccine uptake.

@lonelyapple

I'm double vaxxed but I don't care if other people aren't and I don't think anybody should be stopped from going anywhere. If you are vaccinated and the vaccines work, why are you worried about the non-vaxxed? Wear another mask if it bothers you so much!

Same, agree

@NoOtherShadeOfBlue

So again because I haven’t seen anyone vaccine-hesitant answer this: how many bars, restaurants and theatres do you think would be open without the vaccine programme?

When the Delta variant hit the country, what do you think the alternative to vaccines could have been? It takes a much heavier toll than the original strains we had in 2020.

So, given that enough people having the vaccines is the reason that these venues can open, why do people think they have a right to refuse the vaccine for themselves but still take advantage of everything that the vaccines have allowed to reopen? I don’t understand how anyone squares that worldview with themselves. Surely they understand that if everyone exercised their right to refuse the vaccine, no one would be going out to bars at all?

The anti vax won't answer that, because the answer is none. They don't have an alternative to the vaccine, that's the thing.

@nannybeach

Why would anyone have a problem with a vaccine passport? You need a passport to go aboad, used to also need an E111, travel insurance, dirvers licence with picture, ID to purchase some products. I personally know someone, not old,no underlying health issues who caught Covid early 2020, is now 24 care in a nursing home. I was nursing had to have Hep ABC, TB, blood tests on an annual basis, no vaccines no job there.

Because you are advocating requiring a vaccine passport to do the things you could do before even at the height of the pandemic.

Drivers licence is a poor example. It just certifies that you can operate a car, which is a learned skill.

Anti vaxxers are as thick as shit going by the posts I see from them on social media. Most of them can barely spell

I agree.

But don't forget its "their body, their choice". So it doesn't matter that they aren't sufficiently intelligent to digest statistical risk properly and don't have enough public spirit to take sensible measures to protect others.

It's their "choice". And God forbid anyone who interferes with the choice of such a person.

I wish they'd all fuck off to COVID island where they can be happy with their "choice" and their "democratic right" to infect each other as they please.

@lockdownmadnessdotcom

Surely they understand that if everyone exercised their right to refuse the vaccine, no one would be going out to bars at all

That view assumes that people have the vaccine for the good for society. And despite MNers' best efforts at sanctimonious virtue-signalling, that is rubbish. Nearly everyone has the vaccine for their own benefit and their benefit alone (and same with childhood vaccines - for the good of "their children).

I also don’t understand people who confidently state that everyone is entirely selfish and does nothing for their community or society as a whole. Getting vaccinated is about personal benefit and the greater good. Most people think about both, not just one.

The anti vax won't answer that, because the answer is none. They don't have an alternative to the vaccine, that's the thing

This double jabbed person did answer it. The alternative is to live as normally as possible with as few restrictions as necessary. Look to Sweden or Florida for some ideas on that.

(Despite media headlines, Florida performed just as well as lockdown-loving states)

@Vodkacarbsandtobacco

Oh, and please stop worrying about what 'covid deniers' are allowed/not allowed to do. Just please make sure you keep doing your bit to save the nhs by wearing your soggy mask and slapping loads of slimy crap all over your shopping trolley handle. Happy zooming xxx

God they always wang on about soggy/filthy masks. So so weird. If your mask (I know you don't wear one but just try to imagine) is soggy then maybe you need to see a doctor? Or... change it?

@NoOtherShadeOfBlue

If we didn’t have any vaccines, we would be in lockdowns and none of us would be going to bars and concerts. So people who don’t want the vaccine are relying on enough other people getting it so that lockdowns can end. I can’t quite get my head around people who want to make no contribution to society but benefit from everyone else doing so.

There are always some in society that take and never contribute.

God they always wang on about soggy/filthy masks. So so weird. If your mask (I know you don't wear one but just try to imagine) is soggy then maybe you need to see a doctor? Or... change it?

Yeah like people are changing their masks every few hours or so. You know that doesn’t happen.

And if you are still wearing cloth masks … god help you, because it’s doing absolutely fuck all.

@NoOtherShadeOfBlue

If we didn’t have any vaccines, we would be in lockdowns and none of us would be going to bars and concerts. So people who don’t want the vaccine are relying on enough other people getting it so that lockdowns can end. I can’t quite get my head around people who want to make no contribution to society but benefit from everyone else doing so.

It's really easy. They're massively thick. Some of them THINK they're clever but the proof is in the unvaccinated pudding.

I have 2 relatives who are unvaccinated.
Neither of them is them is "thick as shit", or uneducated.
I don't understand or agree with them, but education or intelligence isn't the issue.

My sibling is in their 40s and has a science PhD and highly academic background. Last time I asked they weren't getting vaxed "for now". I don't want to argue with them about it, but they live with some fairly "out there" people and think it is too new, and they can keep themselves safe.

My older relative is in their 80s and worked for the NHS for over 40 years. They are scared of needles and again think they can avoid people and live safely.

To be clear I have had 2 jabs and looking forward to a booster, but from my personal experience, the idea that unvaccinated people are thick and uneducated is wrong.

There are always some in society that take and never contribute.

And then there are people such as me that contribute to society more than many through voluntary work. I also do as much as I can to ease my burden on the NHS but choose not to have the vaccine due to my own beliefs.

@UsedUpUsername

I won't be visiting a carehome again. She died before I could.