Getting through the winter

[herecomesthsun]

www.theguardian.com/world/2021/sep/10/boris-johnson-publish-covid-blueprint-difficult-winter

To be honest, I'd be really happy with any of this if it keeps the kids in school and we don't have to have any sort of lockdown again.

"Boris Johnson is set to publish a Covid blueprint to prepare for a “difficult time” this winter, with jabs for younger teenagers, a booster programme, flu shots and vaccine passports all expected to be part of the measures.

Johnson is likely to strike a more cautious note than he has done in recent months, warning the public to continue being careful as cases are rising – with more than 8,000 Covid patients in hospital in the UK despite the vaccination programme.

The government is looking to extend its emergency Covid powers – ... as a last resort.

No 10 is hoping the combination of measures to be announced next week will head off the need for further draconian lockdowns after some scientists warned that a “firebreak” could be needed this autumn."

Er sorry but I'm in London and everywhere I go I am definitely the minority wearing the mask, so few are wearing them now I actually feel the odd one out - but I'll continue as it's not just about me, which is what you lot have a problem with, it's all me me me and my liberties, no thought for others

@marieantoinehairnet your so right. I don’t get fully grown adults crying about wearing a mask. (Pregnant and asthmatic). Even if it’s just public spaces so vulnerable can get out too. But Covid has only brought out he selfishness in the human race!

London won’t be homogeneous. Where I am has always been quite good with compliance. I notice on some bus routes it’s lower v say zone 2 supermarket

Also couldn’t disagree more ie ‘selfish’. People have made huge sacrifices over last 18 months. When people do this insult it is counter productive imo. You will not get closer to what you want by suggesting people haven’t changed behaviour, and sometimes drastically, when they have.

@Thewiseoneincognito as I have said many times. Covid will never be over. It is moving on to the endemic stage. The pandemic will end and Covid will still be circulating and we’ll all get on with our lives.

That’s a more realistic view point than your stance. Of continuing to fight a virus that will always be here. Of trying continual suppression with damaging measures. Zero Covid is what is unrealistic here. Not people who are positive about the fact we are through the worst and are looking forward.

Thanks @Peteycat I love all the positive news and research in that thread. Very factual and science based. Along with the data thread which annoyingly has started to attract some of the usual suspects to derail it.

Wrong thread!

No right one. I missed the last page.

I’m still not sure what we are arguing about? If masks come back over winter fine.

I don’t agree with any other restrictions and it doesn’t sound like the government do either.

Booster campaign for the elderly/vulnerable will be good.

It’s bound to be bad if we have a bad flu year but that doesn’t mean we go back to restrictions.

That really is the summary of the news conference.

Can’t wait until travel restrictions are dropped. As being reported likely today.

It looks like less restrictions not more. What a shame for you @Thewiseoneincognito

@Delatron

No right one. I missed the last page.

I’m still not sure what we are arguing about? If masks come back over winter fine.

I don’t agree with any other restrictions and it doesn’t sound like the government do either.

Booster campaign for the elderly/vulnerable will be good.

It’s bound to be bad if we have a bad flu year but that doesn’t mean we go back to restrictions.

That really is the summary of the news conference.

I can’t see anyone saying that we would aim for zero covid, I can see you arguing very little is necessary

In your “ bound to be bad” how bad would you have it be before you would agree with restrictions. In terms of say bed capacity or cancelled other care. Out of interest

Can I say that if you want people who having given up seeing their families, their education, their ability to earn money and a lot lot more often when covid has very little personal risk to wear masks then telling they are selfish is probably not the way to do it,

But then I have learnt you give up everything and quite frankly it’s not enough for the lockdown zealots so no point trying to help anymore I will stick to people who say pleas and thank you when they want me to do something to benefit them not me!

Only I person has spoken about selfishness on here.

Thank you if you have shown other people the courtesy of, for example, wearing a mask if it's crowded indoors. And please please consider doing it over the winter, as I think the more of us who do that, the more it will help us all get through this.

I'm sorry it has been such a tough time

Gave everything up but can no longer wear a mask to protect vulnerable people. We needed to adapt but the human race is to selfish to adapt. We don’t want to change at all. We prob needed masks less in the past than we do now. Health care workers still have to wear them at work all day. Think we can manage an hour at a shop. 🙄.

@sleepwouldbenice we have to learn to live with this virus. The correct response is not damaging restrictions every winter. That really isn’t a viable long term strategy.

The NHS is under pressure every winter. It’s not for for purpose. That doesn’t mean we lockdown every winter to ‘protect it’. We invest in it or come up with a different plan.

Some half hearted mitigations really are pointless.
As I’ve said I don’t mind wearing a mask in the supermarket and on public transport. I don’t think it’s doing much though.

For for purpose

@Delatron totally agree with the nhs, it’s been underfunded for too long. But feel people should be able to protect them selves from needing hospital.
My other opinion is secondary school children need to take lft twice a week. I don’t understand why adults and parents are not (although some do). This would also help. The think about This is some don’t get symptoms but spread it to others that could die.
People seem to be concerned about cancer patience not getting their treatment but catching Covid while having chemo is awful too. Treatments need to keep running this year, but I would like to do all I can to protect the most vulnerable too.

Some half hearted mitigations really are pointless.

Yes, it does increasingly feel like that. I suppose they could be helping a bit by knocking the top off a big spike, but they aren’t preventing that spike in the first place. And is it really an improvement if they reduce R from 1.28 to 1.24 so the same peak comes slightly later (and into winter)?

I think it’s hard to shake the idea that they must do lots, because we’d all like to believe that we personally can do loads against the virus at relatively little cost to ourselves. If only everyone wore masks enthusiastically enough we could beat this thing, and if we’re not beating this thing it must be because people are trying to find ways to get around mask requirements! It can’t be that masks/WFH/capacity limits on large events just aren’t enough to stop it…

@GoldenOmber for me I get mask won’t beat it, but going to public spaces tested and wearing a mask makes me feel vulnerable and elderly people are a little more protected. Yes younger people will catch it, and everyone can have their choice, vulnerable may wish to eat out and meet with family and children which could be a risk but that’s their risk to weigh up.
However their are vulnerable and elderly that only go to the shops or use a but because they have to buy are trying to stay safe. If I can help by wearing a masking and doing lateral flow tests I will.

Not everyone is compatible with a mask. Lots of people cannot simply wear them it's not a case of oh it's just an hour. I understand that some people are scared, but you have the choice to protect yourselves if you want to with a mask. Notice I used the word choice, because it should be a choice. Lots of people I know with disabilities were getting really stressed out wearing them even though they were exempt. That's because the attitude of some of the public was to challenge and abuse them (not everyone obviously), so they wore one at the detriment to themselves. Please think of this.

@Peteycat I totally understand people with disabilities but people with non Young abs just don’t care! If able people did all they could that would go a way. Sadly masks don’t protect your self they protect others. Also lateral flow tests why can young healthy people do these esp when kids can.

@TinyDancer321

It does not just have to be a disability though does it? There are so many other reasons why.

Lots of kids aren't doing the tests now because the general feeling of parents is that enough is enough now. Some still test of course but many don't.

You are blaming young people again, and I'm sorry but please stop. It's not healthy or helpful.

@GoldenOmber

Some half hearted mitigations really are pointless.

Yes, it does increasingly feel like that. I suppose they could be helping a bit by knocking the top off a big spike, but they aren’t preventing that spike in the first place. And is it really an improvement if they reduce R from 1.28 to 1.24 so the same peak comes slightly later (and into winter)?

I think it’s hard to shake the idea that they must do lots, because we’d all like to believe that we personally can do loads against the virus at relatively little cost to ourselves. If only everyone wore masks enthusiastically enough we could beat this thing, and if we’re not beating this thing it must be because people are trying to find ways to get around mask requirements! It can’t be that masks/WFH/capacity limits on large events just aren’t enough to stop it…

If they reduce R from 1.2 or 1.15 to .95 then yes it would be worth it, I think, and this is by this sort of amount that they are supposed to help. (It may well be more significant for FFP2s).

The mainstay of protection against the virus is the vaccine programme, but, with delta, smaller measures will matter quite a bit.

[quote Tinydancer321]@GoldenOmber for me I get mask won’t beat it, but going to public spaces tested and wearing a mask makes me feel vulnerable and elderly people are a little more protected. Yes younger people will catch it, and everyone can have their choice, vulnerable may wish to eat out and meet with family and children which could be a risk but that’s their risk to weigh up.
However their are vulnerable and elderly that only go to the shops or use a but because they have to buy are trying to stay safe. If I can help by wearing a masking and doing lateral flow tests I will.[/quote]
Yes, absolutely don’t disagree with that. I think many/most people do still want to do what they can to help within reasonable limits on their lives. It’s just the idea that these measures can head off a big wave that I disagree with, because they can’t and they aren’t and the inevitable consequence when they don’t is “why are people so selfish, it’s all their fault cases are high!”

I’m personally really not happy with the hospital pressures where I live at the moment. Elective surgeries are already getting cancelled. But I don’t really see what we can do to fix it right now, other than either bring back harsher restrictions with all the negative impacts that brings or grit our teeth and hope it starts getting better soon.

Ok well we won’t agree about masks then. Because it’s like your saying a high percentage of people have a reason to not wear one of do lateral flow tests.
I mean young adults, like under 50! I feel for any older people wearing masks. The amount of 30-45 year old not wearing them. The other day I have some man go right up to my child and shout other them with mo mask! Where we all wore one. Then another couple stand so close to me. Sadly I choose to distance but I can’t control others. This is where I feel for vulnerable in society.

I also don’t agree with the push on vaccines I have been vaccinated but again the vaccines protect us more than others so we should do what’s best for our selves. However keeping our distance and wearing a mask doenst help with the curb but helps individuals.

@TinyDancer321

The man shouting at your child was a dick. I hope your child is OK and the man that did it steps in a huge pile of dog shit, people do have a reason not to do lft because they don't want to anymore. That's a good enough reason.