Getting through the winter

[herecomesthsun]

www.theguardian.com/world/2021/sep/10/boris-johnson-publish-covid-blueprint-difficult-winter

To be honest, I'd be really happy with any of this if it keeps the kids in school and we don't have to have any sort of lockdown again.

"Boris Johnson is set to publish a Covid blueprint to prepare for a “difficult time” this winter, with jabs for younger teenagers, a booster programme, flu shots and vaccine passports all expected to be part of the measures.

Johnson is likely to strike a more cautious note than he has done in recent months, warning the public to continue being careful as cases are rising – with more than 8,000 Covid patients in hospital in the UK despite the vaccination programme.

The government is looking to extend its emergency Covid powers – ... as a last resort.

No 10 is hoping the combination of measures to be announced next week will head off the need for further draconian lockdowns after some scientists warned that a “firebreak” could be needed this autumn."

We are allowed to discuss realistic outcomes on this one.

“Lack of restrictions in the UK will probably lead to a much nastier variant that will be worse for children” is not a ‘realistic outcome’ though. It’s “ooooh, what sounds scary? Bet people will listen to THIS!”

Are you predicting any of the other human coronaviruses will mutate to become worse for children? They’re all in widespread circulation around the globe, we have let them do that for decades without ANY restrictions 😱

@endlesscraziness

What's your tipping point? If critical care can no longer be offered to cancer surgery and it's decided at the front door whether you get critical care? If the hospitals are so overwhelmed that they have no beds and people are dying on ambulances, will that convince people to at least wear masks? Our hospital is at Nov 20 levels for general patients and January for ICU. If everyone were vaccinated we could probably scrape through, but 85% of our under 55 admissions are unvaccinated and 90% of ICU admissions are we can't cope with the inevitable breakthrough cases in the old vaccinated with such high levels of transmission.

Either you follow some rules. Or healthcare will crumble irrespective of your political or vaccine stance

Why on earth should vaccinated people (and before the ‘personal choice’ people start, I didn’t want to either, I did it for society as a whole) accept restrictions when such a high % of admissions are unvaccinated? They are the ones delaying ops, cancer surgery etc and should be ashamed.

Well, personally I'd say that it's conceivable that the viruses will mutate and if children remain susceptible it's a possibility that it might affect them more. It's a bit of a concern, but it's hypothetical. I'd put the emphasis slightly differently myself.

So other issues loom larger for me, like protecting vulnerable children from the very high likelihood of getting infected in schools this autumn and winter.

But if people want to discuss the possibility of a new variant, I don't see why they shouldn't. And I imagine other posters are robust enough to read about it, otherwise, there's always the Good news thread.

13:37marieantoinehairnet

"Agreed Herecomes...

I have noticed the deniers love to throw around mental health diagnoses for those of us with a wholly realistic view of the sh1t show we've experienced"

I never diagnosed you with mental health problems, I said lots of people are struggling and unhelpful comments like yours aren't helping.

@Herecomesthsun

Are you annoyed at me for trying to squash your negativity you love to bathe in or something?

@Peteycat

13:37marieantoinehairnet

"Agreed Herecomes...

I have noticed the deniers love to throw around mental health diagnoses for those of us with a wholly realistic view of the sh1t show we've experienced"

I never diagnosed you with mental health problems, I said lots of people are struggling and unhelpful comments like yours aren't helping.

@Herecomesthsun

Are you annoyed at me for trying to squash your negativity you love to bathe in or something?

I'm good thanks. If you want less negativity, do try the Good News thread .

But if people want to discuss the possibility of a new variant, I don't see why they shouldn't.

Declaring it with confidence as something that probably will happen is what pisses people off. Which I suspect that poster knows full well.

@GoldenOmber

But if people want to discuss the possibility of a new variant, I don't see why they shouldn't.

Declaring it with confidence as something that probably will happen is what pisses people off. Which I suspect that poster knows full well.

It's quite likely that variants will happen and we all know that.

Fingers crossed.

Fingers crossed that they won't

Phew, @Herecomesthsun here's me thinking that you wanted it.

The rhetoric has been dismal

This is a long term thing compared to flu season. They should never have said, no going back etc but merely we are in a fluid situation and we will try our best to get back to you normal but this will probably be with ebbs and tides to mitigate known and unknown factors eg new variants, vaccines not being as robust as we'd like, unexpected things.

Op I'm dreading winter.
Already its taking hours it seems for ambulances to come out.

It's quite likely that variants will happen and we all know that.

Again, there is a difference between “probably new variants will emerge” and “probably a nastier new variant will emerge that will be much more severe in children and will be caused by the lack of restrictions in the UK.”

Do you really feel that discussing the worst possible scenarios as a near-certainty are a sign of how “robust” you are?

@sleepwouldbenice thank you!!!! I'm so sick of seeing people pointing at Scotland saying "look! Cases bad so masks don't work" as if that constitutes an intelligent point or an actual scientific argument

If the virus is here and endemic how long would you be keeping these measures to ‘keep a lid on it?’

I’m guessing forever now as nothing is going to change? The NHS will get overwhelmed every year. A certain number of people will die of Covid every year (amongst many other illnesses).

So people are arguing for masks permanently? If not then when will you say it’s ok to not have masks and what will be different then?

We’ve become so focusing on ‘keeping a lid’ on this virus when it’s not going to go away... ever.

@sleepwouldbenice thank you!!!! I'm so sick of seeing people pointing at Scotland saying "look! Cases bad so masks don't work" as if that constitutes an intelligent point or an actual scientific argument

But science aside, it is happening so why can't people say that?

Well said @Delatron.

Agree with all that @Lostinacloud said.

@marieantoinehairnet

People are also forgetting that delta might be nasty, but without any restrictions a much nastier variant will read it's head eventually... probably one that does affect children

Yes, that variant is already here.

To be clear, my 12yo DS was shaking, vomiting and struggling to breathe with coronavirus. My 14yo DS is also sick. They are on Day 9 now and will probably be able to concentrate enough to do some home schooling this week.

This is not scaremongering. This is absolutely the story in lots of Scottish homes right now.

@Delatron

If the virus is here and endemic how long would you be keeping these measures to ‘keep a lid on it?’

I’m guessing forever now as nothing is going to change? The NHS will get overwhelmed every year. A certain number of people will die of Covid every year (amongst many other illnesses).

So people are arguing for masks permanently? If not then when will you say it’s ok to not have masks and what will be different then?

We’ve become so focusing on ‘keeping a lid’ on this virus when it’s not going to go away... ever.

This is what no one has an answer for, there are certain measures/ restrictions which are not feasible long term.

We cannot keep shutting everything down, we need to allow businesses to run, children to be educated, and people to be with their loved ones.

If vaccinations will not make the virus ‘go away’ then we need to find a way to keep things moving. At this point lockdowns will just delay the inevitable and do more harm than good.

Lockdowns definitely do more harm. I will not be ignoring the elderly and vulnerable ever again in my whole life.

No one is saying they want lockdowns .

I think kindness to the elderly and vulnerable should be at the heart of our society.

As well as looking after the key workers who keep services for them running.

It’s the doommongers that have their heads in the clouds and are in denial that life will go back to normal and is going back to normal (London yesterday was fantastically busy). They think they can scare people by talking about variants and the virus becoming more serious for children. Links/science/evidence please?

Zero Covid is not an option anymore. Even suppressing the virus isn’t an option. Unless you fancy doing that forever.

The vaccines are working to reduce deaths.
There’s some terrified people on here who can’t face that we are working towards living with the virus. Maybe they are the ones who should go on the good news thread. Or work out how they are going to live their lives going forward without being bogged down by fear.

[quote minatrina]@sleepwouldbenice thank you!!!! I'm so sick of seeing people pointing at Scotland saying "look! Cases bad so masks don't work" as if that constitutes an intelligent point or an actual scientific argument[/quote]
If Scotland’s case rate is an example of masks and WFH working, then surely England’s lower case rate shows that what England is doing is working even better, so good call Boris?

Most of the elderly I know would quite frankly like to crack on with getting their lives back and having a bit of fun. And taking their chances after their vaccinations.

@Delatron mine too. I was so worried last year about them, and thankfully now they want to live not just exist.

@Delatron

If the virus is here and endemic how long would you be keeping these measures to ‘keep a lid on it?’

I’m guessing forever now as nothing is going to change? The NHS will get overwhelmed every year. A certain number of people will die of Covid every year (amongst many other illnesses).

So people are arguing for masks permanently? If not then when will you say it’s ok to not have masks and what will be different then?

We’ve become so focusing on ‘keeping a lid’ on this virus when it’s not going to go away... ever.

I don't think anyone wants us to wear masks all the time and/or indefinitely.

Indoors, in crowded places etc this winter might be good, especially if enough people do it that it is more an act of social responsibility than a mandate. Not everyone who is immune suppressed has had all their doses of vaccine/ boosters etc yet, for example.

CEV (which I am) might choose to use masks sometimes occasionally in the future after that maybe. It might be a good thing that this is seen as a social option going forward, for people who have a cold etc.