Getting through the winter

[herecomesthsun]

www.theguardian.com/world/2021/sep/10/boris-johnson-publish-covid-blueprint-difficult-winter

To be honest, I'd be really happy with any of this if it keeps the kids in school and we don't have to have any sort of lockdown again.

"Boris Johnson is set to publish a Covid blueprint to prepare for a “difficult time” this winter, with jabs for younger teenagers, a booster programme, flu shots and vaccine passports all expected to be part of the measures.

Johnson is likely to strike a more cautious note than he has done in recent months, warning the public to continue being careful as cases are rising – with more than 8,000 Covid patients in hospital in the UK despite the vaccination programme.

The government is looking to extend its emergency Covid powers – ... as a last resort.

No 10 is hoping the combination of measures to be announced next week will head off the need for further draconian lockdowns after some scientists warned that a “firebreak” could be needed this autumn."

@Peteycat he wasn’t shouting at my kid but other with no mask. I feel when out I want to do what I can (personally) to help even one person not catch it who is vulnerable. 150 people averagely died every day. I would hate that to be my grandparent. Before visiting my grand parents I also do lateral flow tests.
I suppose We will see how it goes over winter

Over not other lol

[quote Delatron]@sleepwouldbenice we have to learn to live with this virus. The correct response is not damaging restrictions every winter. That really isn’t a viable long term strategy.

The NHS is under pressure every winter. It’s not for for purpose. That doesn’t mean we lockdown every winter to ‘protect it’. We invest in it or come up with a different plan.

Some half hearted mitigations really are pointless.
As I’ve said I don’t mind wearing a mask in the supermarket and on public transport. I don’t think it’s doing much though.[/quote]
Once again yes we do have to learn to live with it. But it’s not just a flick the switch and it’s sorted situation. That’s so naive

I have worked in the NHS and led the calculations of the shortfall in capacity thanks. I know what the issues were before covid and what pressure they were under

If you really still don’t get the idea that it’s different from that, despite all the evidence, worldwide action and posts on this forum then your narrow mind is leading you that way and there is no arguing with you

If they reduce R from 1.2 or 1.15 to .95 then yes it would be worth it, I think

But that’s my point - they don’t! Maybe it would be enough it if they did, but they don’t, so it isn’t.

Again, our cases in Scotland are currently three times higher than our January peak. That’s with legally required masks, with WFH, with everyone encouraged to take two LFTs a week. The only thing that would have kept R below 1 here would have been much much stronger restrictions than “everyone wear a mask in Tesco.”

@GoldenOmber why do you think the numbers are high? I know school kids when back sooner.
Could it be because Scotland is doing lft tests where England isn’t? I don’t think England have a clear number of Covid cases because the lft tests are not being done (well this week secondary students have just started).
Also not sur what the death rate or hospital rate is compared to England.

[quote Tinydancer321]@GoldenOmber why do you think the numbers are high? I know school kids when back sooner.
Could it be because Scotland is doing lft tests where England isn’t? I don’t think England have a clear number of Covid cases because the lft tests are not being done (well this week secondary students have just started).
Also not sur what the death rate or hospital rate is compared to England.[/quote]
No, our LFT tests don’t count in the daily cases (they do in England) so it’s not the LFTs.

Leading theory at the moment seems to be that it’s lower population immunity. Scotland always had lower numbers in the ONS antibody survey, we had lockdown in place for longer, we didn’t get as high a peak in January. In a sense that’s a success - better we are getting these cases now after vaccines than in January. So maybe that, plus that we opened more stuff all at once on our ‘freedom day’ equivalent right before schools went back? I don’t know for sure though. It’s odd.

@GoldenOmber our lft numbers don’t count I assumed people taking lft maybe backing it up with a pcr?
I get that though and could be because of that, which shows in a way we need it to spread 🤦🏼‍♀️

Surely masks are only effective if they are worn correctly in all settings where transmission is likely to occur.

So we know most spread is inside in people’s homes. Do we have mask wearing there?
You want masks in all school settings?

I don’t think many people are picking up Covid from 15 minutes in a supermarket. Therefore the impact on spread by wearing a mask in a supermarket is minimal.

On a busy tube maybe.. but I also read on another thread the tubes are so well ventilated that it doesn’t matter.

So what settings will mask wearing have a really significant impact? (Other than hospitals).

I’m not completely against masks but I don’t think they have a huge impact (when not worn properly in most situations).

Like another poster said. Previously, walk in to pub with mask. Sit down. Take mask off. Spend hours in close proximity to many people. Put mask back on to walk out of pub. This works
does it? The virus can distinguish between when you are sitting and walking around.

we are the same household at home, so we don't wear masks there

we don't usually wear masks outdoors (I might if I find myself suddenly in a crowd)

DS (and he is not the only one) wears a FFP2 mask to school. He was vaccinated as immunocompromised but not long enough ago to have full immunity. But other parents are also sending their children with FFP2s.

I wear an FFP2 to the supermarket.

Our butcher, hairdresser, supermarkets ask people to wear masks if possible.

I take my mask off if someone has a hearing impairment and asks me to.

It works practically enough for the time being.

It works on a personal level.

But in terms of impact on national spread. Many households have been mixing, having parties, sleepovers, visitors. Holidaying in groups. This will be the bulk of the spread and nobody is wearing masks in these interactions. Or in nightclubs, pubs, restaurants, festivals, concerts..

Nobody was wearing a mask in my hairdressers. That’s very close contact.

So if some people are wearing them to the supermarket I don’t think this is having a massive impact on spread. Sorry.

@herecomesthsun we are similar.
Surely people use this common sense when wearing a mask. If I went around a friends I would ask do they want me to wear a mask. Then both have consent. In busy places I’m not going to ask everyone so I will wear a mask being considerate to others… even in my local hospital people try not to wear masks. Why did you exclude mask wearing in hospitals and feel it necessary there @Delatron

Because hospitals are areas where spread is high and there are very ill people @Tinydancer321

Less so in a nightclub/ concert.

It may make you feel better but masks protect other people. If most people aren’t wearing them then you are not protected. So I would say it’s not working on a practical level.

I’m not anti mask in general but the fact is if only a few are wearing them then they won’t work..

For me it’s not national, it’s thinking of the vulnerable people in society. People who are CEV can choose if they go clubbing, mix and go around licking the floor. But some the only place they will go will be shops, and transport hair dressers etc. So for me it’s protecting them people.
Yes others may still catch it but that’s their choice. Personally I will wear masks where fit too.

but 90-95% people in my local town wear masks in shops etc

so we are protecting each other, by your own argument Delatron

I actually feel safer in a hospital than a school. I was visiting my Nan daily and they are very careful there!
Vulnerable people do go shopping too! 🤦🏼‍♀️. They are less likely to go clubbing.
It’s not about numbers, as on the whole masks won’t bring numbers down but it’s about the places where everyone mixes, the people who have been clubbing and eating out daily and the most vulnerable. I doubt 80year olds or people with severe lung issues are clubbing. But there are certain places where we all mix. Them places I will wear a mask to protect others.

everywhere I go I am definitely the minority wearing the mask, so few are wearing them now I actually feel the odd one out

but 90-95% people in my local town wear masks in shops etc

Shows how regional / area based it is

I’m still wearing a mask in the supermarket. I’m impressed you have 95%. It’s about 50% here and dropping by the week.

I also wore a mask on the tube. The problem is those who need protecting are wearing masks. Those who are most likely to have to virus and spread it (youngsters) aren’t.