Getting through the winter

[herecomesthsun]

www.theguardian.com/world/2021/sep/10/boris-johnson-publish-covid-blueprint-difficult-winter

To be honest, I'd be really happy with any of this if it keeps the kids in school and we don't have to have any sort of lockdown again.

"Boris Johnson is set to publish a Covid blueprint to prepare for a “difficult time” this winter, with jabs for younger teenagers, a booster programme, flu shots and vaccine passports all expected to be part of the measures.

Johnson is likely to strike a more cautious note than he has done in recent months, warning the public to continue being careful as cases are rising – with more than 8,000 Covid patients in hospital in the UK despite the vaccination programme.

The government is looking to extend its emergency Covid powers – ... as a last resort.

No 10 is hoping the combination of measures to be announced next week will head off the need for further draconian lockdowns after some scientists warned that a “firebreak” could be needed this autumn."

"54herecomesthsun

And this is what the Telegraph is saying

www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2021/09/10/mandatory-face-masks-could-return-virus-cases-surge-autumn/

Again, all ambiguous wording. Could.

Boris Johnson is set to publish a Covid blueprint to prepare for a “difficult time” this winter, with jabs for younger teenagers, a booster programme, flu shots and vaccine passports all expected to be part of the measures.

Shame instead of being 'set' to do it far too late (as per) he doesn't do as Jeremy Hunt says and, you know, get on with it.

Other countries have and are.

As for masks. Other more sensible countries (and the more sensible US states) never got rid of this easy and simple mitigation measure.

[quote Peteycat]@RafalsTheKingofClay

"Getting a jab will cut it though. Last figure I can find is that 78% of care workers had had at least 1 covid jab and that was before the government announced making it mandatory. I'd expect that number to have risen over the last 2 months and rise again before November.

It may well be a factor in the shortage of care staff at the moment, but I'd think that poor wages and staffing issues being felt across a number of sectors in the UK are more pressing"

You don't know this.[/quote]
Well no, but that's why I said I think, not I know.

But the care sector has been a looming crisis for years. The pay is generally rubbish, the hours are unsociable and the work is poorly valued. There were 120,000 vacancies at the start of 2020. Since then, large numbers of non-UK born citizens have left the UK, some workers died due to inadequate PPE, and plenty more will have chosen to leave. Add to that current shortages in other areas meaning increased wages and often more sociable hours it's difficult to see why more staff won't leave. And the more vacancies there are the more pressure the remaining staff are under causing them to burn out.

Requiring staff to be vaccinated from november doesn't help that. But getting rid of the requirement doesn't fix any of the underlying issues either.

"Requiring staff to be vaccinated from november doesn't help that. But getting rid of the requirement doesn't fix any of the underlying issues either"

No, I agree that there is a crisis in the care sector, however mandatory vaccines for staff will surely make it worse.

This sounds great to me. I have been loving the freedoms of this summer and want them to continue without looming lockdown or school closures. Our children can’t be punished again by closing schools and restrictions.
If all it takes is sensible masking up in indoor crowded spaces (should never have stopped imo) and a mass jabbing programme then that’s great.
Why are there 6m unvaccinated adults? 6m is a lot of stupid.(I’m aware there’s the odd person who can’t be vaccinated for medical reasons but that can’t be 6m!). We should do what France have done and make it compulsory if you want to go to the pub or eat out, that would concentrate their minds!
We need to learn to live with this endemic virus and if that means mitigation being planned that’s so much better than lockdowns.

If Johnson, the bullshitter-in-chief, is using the phrase 'difficult winter' then we are in for a rocky ride.

So frustrating seeing the rest of Europe now with more vaccine coverage and lower cases. Not going to deny I am simply jealous of the fact their governments are more careful than ours.

If Johnson has a 'plan', he needs to get on with it. He's too slow, too indecisive, too half-arsed.

Johnson a year ago was giving it the 'no more lockdowns' and 'let the bodies pile high', so he will want to cover his arse this time.

The problem is he's so reactive rather than proactive and it makes more restrictions inevitable. Booster shots should be rolled out NOW, 12-15 year olds should have had the vaccine roll out now (obviously optional).

The lack of carers has a lot to do with leaving the eu! The government are keeping this quite, but we are going to have a major issue this year (dh job is quite high up within social care). So just like the lorry drivers we now have a issue with carers.

Personally I’m 38 1/2 weeks pregnant, 3 kids I’m different schools, schools are rife with Covid already been back 5 days. I’m scared of catching Covid so close to due date, also means not being able to go to my Nan/mum funeral. I can’t see us staying away from Covid for 2 weeks let alone months. So we will Clearly all get it.(half my friends double jabbed have still been poorly with Covid).
I think by summer next year we won’t have to worry about care as most CEV will have passed from Covid. There is no way they can protect them selves now, it’s only just autumn and 150-200 are dying a day. By winter this will treble.
As human species I think the future is pretty bleak one where money comes before people.

Can't see another lockdown. At worst things may go back one stage to pre July 19 but even that is probably unlikely.

Waning immunity may come into it so I daresay boosters will be rolled out in the next few months. I think Israel hospitalisations etc started increasing after 6 months but the spread out jabs in the UK help us here.

I think infections for everyone are highly likely and I suppose what I would worry about is how severe reinfections turn out to be. The narrative seems to be seems to be that each infection will get milder and hopefully that will be true long term but some have been much sicker the second time apparently. Maybe this is viral load or the effect of delta.

@User135644

Johnson a year ago was giving it the 'no more lockdowns' and 'let the bodies pile high', so he will want to cover his arse this time.

The problem is he's so reactive rather than proactive and it makes more restrictions inevitable. Booster shots should be rolled out NOW, 12-15 year olds should have had the vaccine roll out now (obviously optional).

Agree with you we always so reactive not proactive always too little too late which result in harder restrictions for longer. A 2 week circuit break won't work if there's 3 week lag in restrictions being put into place. I don't want October half term ruined by closing everything down and businesses cant afford it. I honestly don't mind masks, social distancing, isolating, testing if it keeps my kids education disrupted and keeps hospitality and non essential retail open. So fed up of this all or nothing approach. School and waning immunity will drag us down and loss of isolating close contacts will start to take effect. You can have what I consider wreckless infection control then claim we have to be cautious.

Masks and isolating households when there is a case would be easy to bring back. Allowing people to go to work, school etc from a household with covid with no compulsory testing seems madness.

@3asAbird I totally agree! I don’t get why we either are in full lockdown or we have no restrictions at all!! Schools are totally back to normal and you can’t make people social distance even if you want to. I don’t understand why we couldn’t of kept some things in place. Even in shops and transport so CEV can feel safe getting their shopping.
Also I don’t see why adults can’t do lateral flow tests twice a week. School are not even asking any more.

@RafalsTheKingofClay completely agree! It is a very low paid and under appreciated job! Most go into it for the love of the job, but I was just saying how it is where I am. We have alot of care homes and most are staffed by young mums whilst they can get childcare. Every day I see more and more adverts asking for staff, most of the replies are if we have to have the jab we won't work in this sector anymore. Its concerning as we are loosing alot of caring, qualified staff in as you rightly said an already short staffed area.

No why should we comply with a lockdown when the vaccine is still optional and the vulnerable aren't shielding. That's before you add that we are still using rituximab which is shown to make the vaccine less effective

@vickyc90

No why should we comply with a lockdown when the vaccine is still optional and the vulnerable aren't shielding. That's before you add that we are still using rituximab which is shown to make the vaccine less effective

This is about finding ways to avoid another lockdown . I completely agree with you that we want to avoid a lockdown .

Erm, surely learning to live with the virus means actually living?
Isn’t anybody questioning why we are potentially facing more interference with our lives when we’ve all been good and done exactly what they’ve asked for the past 18 months?
A few million unvaxxed isn’t going to make any difference - in fact the amount of unvaxxed is only just slightly less than the total number of recorded covid infections since the start of the bloody pandemic. And who knows how many unvaxxed have decided not to get vaxxed because they’ve been previously infected and so have what is proving to be a more robust defence against reinfection and spread than vaccination? Nobody knows because natural immunity has been forgotten and ignored.

We really should not be accepting anymore restrictions or interference. If people still haven’t figured out that the ‘it’s just this last 3 months to save the nhs’ or ‘just do this to regain a normal life’ message isn’t on an eternal rinse and repeat cycle unless we say no then we’ve no hope and this thing will go on for years and probably roll into the next crisis so we keep accepting whether the government want to throw at us next.

They can close shops pubs restaurants I guess but not one person will take any notice regarding socialising with friends and family. I also fear young people will really rebel this time with house parties, large gatherings and protests

@Tinydancer321

The lack of carers has a lot to do with leaving the eu! The government are keeping this quite, but we are going to have a major issue this year (dh job is quite high up within social care). So just like the lorry drivers we now have a issue with carers.

Personally I’m 38 1/2 weeks pregnant, 3 kids I’m different schools, schools are rife with Covid already been back 5 days. I’m scared of catching Covid so close to due date, also means not being able to go to my Nan/mum funeral. I can’t see us staying away from Covid for 2 weeks let alone months. So we will Clearly all get it.(half my friends double jabbed have still been poorly with Covid).
I think by summer next year we won’t have to worry about care as most CEV will have passed from Covid. There is no way they can protect them selves now, it’s only just autumn and 150-200 are dying a day. By winter this will treble.
As human species I think the future is pretty bleak one where money comes before people.

I'm sorry you're having a difficult time, especially if you aren't able to get to a funeral. It's very been hectic with term starting, and I hope things go well with having the baby .

I'm CEV and I'm very grateful for the vaccine. The chances of dying from covid now are very reduced thank goodness! I don't think myself that we are all going to die in the next year.

Take care, look after yourself x

@Dontforgetyourbrolly

They can close shops pubs restaurants I guess but not one person will take any notice regarding socialising with friends and family. I also fear young people will really rebel this time with house parties, large gatherings and protests

I think the plans discussed in those articles are to roll out boosters and possibly vaccines, maybe masks - but to keep businesses open and not have a lockdown if at all possible?

Certainly as someone vulnerable, we are socialising very carefully and selectively, and doing things safely, but we are managing to get out and have some fun.

16-24s are very low risk and can also get vaccinated (and may well also have some covid exposure now) so hopefully they will increasingly be able to get on with their social lives etc. Poor kids.

And apparently a press conference is planned about potential measures

news.co.uk/news/politics/covid-lockdown-guidance-new-restrictions-boris-johnson-warning-winter-fears-1193808?fbclid=IwAR1K7aXX0tp33sIEOsz9_4LgcO4wKrAcnyC55CV0zaqLx1B9_xbvrF6_1-Q

Erm, surely learning to live with the virus means actually living?

No, it means just that - learning to live with the changes the pandemic has brought.

It doesn't mean carry on as though it never happened.

Learning to live with it might mean, for example, learning to live with isolating when you're ill, learning to live with working from home over winter, or learning to live with wearing masks on public transport. It does not mean going back to the way things were 2019 (as nice as that would be).

It doesn’t have to mean that though. We’ve never done any of this for flu season and covid (especially delta variant) is not that different.

@Lockheart

Erm, surely learning to live with the virus means actually living?

No, it means just that - learning to live with the changes the pandemic has brought.

It doesn't mean carry on as though it never happened.

Learning to live with it might mean, for example, learning to live with isolating when you're ill, learning to live with working from home over winter, or learning to live with wearing masks on public transport. It does not mean going back to the way things were 2019 (as nice as that would be).

No it's getting on with lives and accepting that covid will kill like the flu does. We should live happy lives and accept death when it comes. What needs to change is our belief we can play god and stop this. We are living completely normal lives have no intention of conforming with restrictions again. We lost someone we loved to suicide over lockdown, yet the only person I know who had more than flu from covid was already chronically unwell not expected to survive more than a year.

@Lostinacloud

It doesn’t have to mean that though. We’ve never done any of this for flu season and covid (especially delta variant) is not that different.

But it does mean that. It's always meant that even if Boris the compulsive liar hasn't explained that when he used it. And covid (especially delta) is different to flu. If you want to just live with that with no behaviour changes on top of flu, then you will just have to expect that hospitals will need to be prioritising giving their bed capacity to the person who need the bed most urgently at that time. And that's almost always going to be the covid patient over the person who's op can be delayed. Even if it means the non-covid person's condition becomes more severe in the meantime. A problem that will be compounded by being unable to release patients into care homes because they are short staffed or have covid outbreaks in them.

And before people start complaining about the NHS and capacity. The reason other countries have these measures still in place to control covid for now is because their healthcare systems wouldn't cope either. Or they care about their citizens more. I'm guessing that could go either way.

@Vickyc90

Sorry for your loss. Its so sad hearing things like this. I agree with you, there are other factors amongst all the issues with covid.