96 dead today...

[Homeontherangeuk]

But Boris knows what he's doing...

Isn't it ironic, that being a highly vaccinated country, this is now seen as a negative!

Half of the UK population is not fully vaccinated. And AZ, whilst still good and better than no vaccine, is not as effective as the mRNA (Pfizer and Moderna) vaccines against Delta, and particularly against Beta.

In America, where it's mostly mRNA vaccines, fully vaccinated are sometimes getting breakthrough infections - but only rarely getting ill enough to need hospital. And almost 100% of the deaths all ages are in the unvaccinated.

We might need to booster jab people, particularly the vulnerable, who has AZ. (Possibly also over 80s who had Pfizer, depending on data re how long protection lasts).

Hopefully we'll have more options than just the limited supply of Pfizer and Moderna. AZ are currently working on boosters tweaked to better protect against newer strains. Fingers crossed that goes well.

gets harder when lockdowns drive activity such as protests which are counter to keep them as low as possible

The protests are a very small minority. The vast majority there support suppress and contain measures. Consistently borne out in polling.

The lockdowns in some Aus states (not all need them) won't be like the UK. Unless there is intentional sabotage by people with an agenda. They locked down with several hundred cases. Get in there quick to contain. And tightened the border closures. Cut the numbers allowed in atva time to quarantine. Sensible measures. The UK is opening up with tens or hundreds of thousands of cases.

It is the UK that is the country concerning the experts worldwide - including but not only those at the WHO.

The BMA are absolutely right.

Posters going on about behavioural differences probably haven’t set foot in Aus

What, like Aus media? Scientific and medical experts? Actual Australians and residents in Australia?

54% is fully vaccinated when I checked yesterday

@Tealightsandd the reason the US has so high a figure is because it is in States where vaccines are a much lower level so that’s why

I think with Boris Johnson its telling how he came to be PM on the wave of getting Brexit done and who supported him to get there. There is a picture of House of Commons where JRM isn’t SD or wearing a mask. Boris Johnson is fully aware of the rebellion he would have particularly on the further right of his party and that’s why he doesn’t want to risk it. It’s also why he didn’t initially sack Matt Hancock

@Tealightsandd

gets harder when lockdowns drive activity such as protests which are counter to keep them as low as possible

The protests are a very small minority. The vast majority there support suppress and contain measures. Consistently borne out in polling.

The lockdowns in some Aus states (not all need them) won't be like the UK. Unless there is intentional sabotage by people with an agenda. They locked down with several hundred cases. Get in there quick to contain. And tightened the border closures. Cut the numbers allowed in atva time to quarantine. Sensible measures. The UK is opening up with tens or hundreds of thousands of cases.

Their vaccine rollout is way behind ours, that’s why they’re in the shit situation that we are not. I think you know this.

Basically the protests may in the public be a small minority but those who don’t want them are a significant minority of the Tory Party and one that wields a certain amount of power. The Brexit effect on the party was immense and it’s showing now

@Tealightsandd

Posters going on about behavioural differences probably haven’t set foot in Aus

What, like Aus media? Scientific and medical experts? Actual Australians and residents in Australia?

You are not comparing the same situations.

Think about it for a bit. Individualistic westerners from similar backgrounds won’t respond that differently to circumstances.

You can see now the same behaviours cropping up with protests and fatigue due to lockdowns now.

Posters vastly overemphasise that we somehow are acting differently to people in Aus if they had been in same situation.

Living 50% life here and there people aren’t getting it. Frustrating but it’s that typical anti U.K. we are the worst at everything mentality.

Absolutely this. It seems people like @Tealightsandd and @NannyAndJohn don't get it. Just for example and not using real figures.

Hi Boris.

Oh ok. Well we're in good company, me and Nanny. The British Medical Association - and, further afield, the world's scientific and medical experts. Including but not only those at the WHO.

I need to make lunch.

Boris, if that's you on here, I think you should take a break too. Get offline and get some sunshine. Take Dilyn for his walk.

Don't forget the poop scoop.

they’re in the shit situation that we are not. I think you know this.

Erm, hate to break it to you just before lunch... but it's not them in the shit situation... (Well obviously everywhere is during a pandemic, but few so bad as the UK. As noted by the world's experts, who have warned that the UK is a danger to the world).

@Tealightsandd but it isn’t Boris Johnson though our political system is very different from the US and Brazil (so Trump and Bolsaro). The PM is the leader but very much at the mercy of his party and Parliament. We don’t have presidential proclamations etc. Nothing can be done without the will of Parliament

Tealightsandd the reason the US has so high a figure is because it is in States where vaccines are a much lower level so that’s why

No. First, it depends on the state. Some have higher proportion of fully vaccinated then here. And with a more effective vaccine.

In America, the vaccinated are sometimes getting breakthrough infections - but it seems that Pfizer and Moderna (and perhaps J&J too) are highly effective at preventing hospitalisation and death. Fully vaccinated are rarely getting ill enough to need hospital.

I really must do lunch now.

Enjoy walking Dilyn, Boris.

Alright definitely last post before lunch!

Yes agree with you about that Quartz.
Boris is under pressure from the extreme right of his party. He can't do what's right for the country (and the world) unless he turns to Labour for support (and I don't know if he can rely on Keir doing the right thing or not, as he too lacks support from his own party).

@Tealightsandd

Alright definitely last post before lunch!

Yes agree with you about that Quartz.
Boris is under pressure from the extreme right of his party. He can't do what's right for the country (and the world) unless he turns to Labour for support (and I don't know if he can rely on Keir doing the right thing or not, as he too lacks support from his own party).

Yes exactly we are seeing the effects of the incredibly polarising Brexit effect on politics. Both party leaders are scared on the far wing elements of both parties. At the beginning it was fairly clear cut that lockdowns were needed and the only way to control this. Things have changed now and the path out isn’t as straightforward anymore (for more than just us) so party politics comes in and that makes for this situation we have now.

Boris Johnson isn’t the reason we don’t have masks - Jacob Rees Mogg and his section of the Tory party are

And I am definitely not Boris Johnson never voted Tory in my life. But I do know something about Parliamentary processes

@Frazzled2207

it is very sad and worrying. However the highest deaths of the week are always reported on a tuesday due to weekend lag. That doesn't make it any less sad but it's very likely that numbers will be lower the next few days.

Government has been shambolic re covid the whole time.

Actually it's usually Wednesday. Another site I'm on has started referring to it as Murder Wednesday. Deaths take a while to process through the system.

[quote DottyHarmer]@NannyAndJohn - your posts are overtly political and you invariably end your posts with some comment that implies that f only Boris were not in charge we would be that unique nation which was problem free.

Saying that we created Alpha and let Delta spread…. Are you unable to remember where this virus originated ? Can you recall the situation in Italy ?

No, you are blinkered and have a one-note mission. I bet you dream that Boris himself had invented the virus…. Anyway, these are coronavirus threads - if you are on some sort of Mission Momentum then post in the Politics section.[/quote]
I have no political affiliation.

I can't stand Johnson and I can't stand Sir Starmer.

@Tealightsandd

Alright definitely last post before lunch!

Yes agree with you about that Quartz.
Boris is under pressure from the extreme right of his party. He can't do what's right for the country (and the world) unless he turns to Labour for support (and I don't know if he can rely on Keir doing the right thing or not, as he too lacks support from his own party).

From what we can gather from text and whatsapp (forget about the messenger and his reasons) BJ is very anti LD & thinks CV is a problem for older people, there isn't a fag paper between him and say Steve Baker and in Javid he has more support, hence the removal of restrictions.

this idea he gives a fuck about about anyone else in this country is sadly mistaken, in that regard he is just like Trump and Bolzarano.

Actually you're right. I forgot about the latest from Cummings.

Boris was apparently still insisting it was 'only' people over 60 (as if they don't matter), when he himself (under 60) was wheeled in to hospital...

Remind me again why people are told not to smoke. Is it because living beyond 60 is valued...?

Half of the UK population is not fully vaccinated. And AZ, whilst still good and better than no vaccine, is not as effective as the mRNA (Pfizer and Moderna) vaccines against Delta

Do you have data on that. Everything that I have found shows they are all within a couple of percentage points on hospitalisations and deaths.

@Cornettoninja

I think Boris is more likely to join King George III in the history section over Mussolini.

No, they will add him to this list

www.britannica.com/list/10-famous-clowns-from-comical-to-creepy

Oops that was a bit political

But as mentioned up thread, this experiment to see if we can push the peak, and then avoid a peak of infections in Autumn is a gamble. The only way to prevent rising infections in Autumn is to bring in restrictions. That is based on knowledge, we know restrictions limit infections.

Bojos decision to 'exit' is a political decision.

Left unchecked the virus can do the only thing it either cares to do, or is biologically driven to do. Of course there are no circumstances in which human behaviour is not a factor. The virus can not operate or act in any way free of human intervention.
So, the only thing we can be sure of is that human behaviour can either create conditions favourable or unfavourable to the spread of the virus. Mutations arise whatever course of action we take, (specific to environmental factors) but happen quicker the more vectors the virus moves through. So, we have no other option, should cases continue to rise, or rise alarmingly in Autumn, or a new variant emerge we will have to implement restrictions. And this will happen.

Bojo is said to have taken the view that he needed us plebs to go shop for a few weeks.

@BigWoollyJumpers

Half of the UK population is not fully vaccinated. And AZ, whilst still good and better than no vaccine, is not as effective as the mRNA (Pfizer and Moderna) vaccines against Delta

Do you have data on that. Everything that I have found shows they are all within a couple of percentage points on hospitalisations and deaths.

It's been quite widely reported. It's still good and definitely worth having as it's better than not being vaccinated, but it produces a lot fewer antibodies than Pfizer and Moderna. That said, it's not just about antibodies.

AZ are currently working on boosters tweaker to give stronger protection against newer strains. With a bit of luck, all things being well, we could have those in the autumn.

*tweaked