96 dead today...

[Homeontherangeuk]

But Boris knows what he's doing...

If Boris Johnson is going to join Franco and Mussolini in the history books I think it’s only fair that Drakeford, Sturgeon and Foster do too (probably not fair to include Foster’s successors as they weren’t around for most of the pandemic). They also didn’t close their borders early last year, had care home fiascos, have had disrupted education, let fans go to big events, didn’t vaccinate teachers early, are not vaccinating teens. I sometimes think being a leader of a devolved government must be easiest job in the world as you get to take credit for things which people think are a good idea (fire break lockdown on Wales, masks in Scotland) but it is always Boris Johnson’s fault if decisions are taken that don’t go well or people don’t like.

I think Boris is more likely to join King George III in the history section over Mussolini.

Or Caligula.

I don't think that the more people die now, the fewer people will die in the winter.

"Opening up" isn't all or nothing.

The more careful we can be around that the better.

The virus is tough no matter where it gets too high - as some Australian state leaders are finding out. Think there have been protests in Melbourne over lockdown. Not sure how many attended. But lockdown and test and trace works only so far.

@Tuba437

making up random figures does not help your argument

@PatrickTheFox

If Boris Johnson is going to join Franco and Mussolini in the history books I think it’s only fair that Drakeford, Sturgeon and Foster do too (probably not fair to include Foster’s successors as they weren’t around for most of the pandemic). They also didn’t close their borders early last year, had care home fiascos, have had disrupted education, let fans go to big events, didn’t vaccinate teachers early, are not vaccinating teens. I sometimes think being a leader of a devolved government must be easiest job in the world as you get to take credit for things which people think are a good idea (fire break lockdown on Wales, masks in Scotland) but it is always Boris Johnson’s fault if decisions are taken that don’t go well or people don’t like.

They have had a far easier ride on here for sure. Plus funding as it is makes things different.

@herecomesthsun

I don't think that the more people die now, the fewer people will die in the winter.

"Opening up" isn't all or nothing.

The more careful we can be around that the better.

Of covid maybe that's true, but open up In the winter to an already streched NHS will mean people not going to hospital for things they should be again either in fear of covid or because we ate told not to go to AandE again. So there will be more death in the winter bit from other things not just covid.

@PatrickTheFox, I agree all the UK governments have made mistakes. Most governments across the world have. But the other three home nations have always been more cautious than England and are not yet replicating throwing caution to the wind Freedom Day which I for one am very glad about.

[quote herecomesthsun]@Tuba437

making up random figures does not help your argument[/quote]
Clearly I said the figures were made up but the premises is the same. Nanny making up dates for 100k cases a day didn't help either did it.

JVT didn't say that or anything very much like it

going back to the data thread

@foxandbee Just to be clear, I’m not defending the Johnson government. I’m just saying that if you (not you in particular but you in general if you know what I mean) are going to criticise letting fans go to the Euros, why only mention Johnson? Same on vaccinations etc. I just think it gives the other leaders a pass which they don’t necessarily deserve. Hope all the 4 nations can get out of this soon.

I agree @PatrickTheFox. I think Johnson gets the most mentions partly because a lot of people in England posting on the Coronavirus boards don't understand health is a devolved matter and assume Johnson is in charge for the whole of UK.

Completely made up numbers just to make the point

Loving this approach

[quote weddread]@lannistunut I believe it's widely known that Chris Whitty was misquoted?

[/quote]
Not sure how he was misquoted, he said we might have to look again if hospitalisations continue to double, surely that is a given? If I have missed a retraction of his comments my apologies.

The hospitalisations will be what the hospitalisations will be, given we are tracking high on the model, either things improve or we are presumably going to get more NHS disruption.

@foxandbee

I agree *@PatrickTheFox*. I think Johnson gets the most mentions partly because a lot of people in England posting on the Coronavirus boards don't understand health is a devolved matter and assume Johnson is in charge for the whole of UK.

Yes health is indeed a devolved matter but border control isn't, by that i mean the devolved leaders can only recomend not travelling to area X, this severely limits the effectiveness of what they can do, hence why, broadly, we all done similarly badly.

These posters don't think of the wider picture and only covid matters to them and as long as those deaths or low they don't care

Really?
Or maybe some people realise that having hospitals, even at a lower level of CV bed occupancy, has a big effect of what the NHS and (oft forgotten) what the staff can cope with.

To me, the open up brigade seem driven by lifting ALL restrictions so they can do whatever they like, often hidden behind "but what about MH? blah blah blah " which they didn't give a flying fuck about pre CV....like it didn't exist before 2020.

@MarshaBradyo

The virus is tough no matter where it gets too high - as some Australian state leaders are finding out. Think there have been protests in Melbourne over lockdown. Not sure how many attended. But lockdown and test and trace works only so far.

Recent polls showed very strong support for border closures in Australia (including state). 77% supported them. High figures (70%+) support all the necessary restrictions including temporary strict proper lockdowns. They don't want to end up like the UK.

Nowhere wants to emulate the UK.
If other countries have any sense, they'll keep us plague islanders out. We're a high risk for a world and vaccine beating new strain.

@lannistunut

We would lockdown for flu if flu was preventing other NHS services being delivered.

It is a simple numbers game. Covid is more of a risk to the functioning of the NHS than flu, that is all.

Flu does disrupt services every Winter, but it is so normal, you never hear about it. A&E's get shut down, ITU/HDU beds are always full and operations get regularly cancelled.

Eventually, when most people are vaccinated, and effective treatments are available, and most people who catch Covid will only be mildly ill, Covid just becomes another viral illness.

Direct from the Guardian, about time to freedom warriors had done sensibility

The British Medical Association, effectively the trade union for doctors, has called for “an urgent rethink” of the government’s Covid strategy, arguing that Boris Johnson has gone too far in lifting restrictions. Dr Chaand Nagpaul, the chair of the BMA council, has frequently questioned government policy in the past, but this morning he issued a particularly strong critique, arguing that the media focus on the so-called pingdemic is missing the point. He said:

The government’s current public infection control strategy is not working, it is leading to rocketing case numbers with more illness in the community, more people in hospital, and more people having to isolate. It is time for an urgent rethink rather than staying on the same course.
BMA members across the country are seeing patient care threatened as surges in Covid illness is resulting in hospitals having to cancel more non-urgent care and GPs are overstretched with demand. Local public health units are overwhelmed with calls from schools and businesses. These pressures are now being exacerbated by increasing numbers of health service staff themselves falling ill or self-isolating, and unable to work at a time when they are most needed. Other key services such as supermarkets are telling us that they are struggling to put food on their shelves due to staff absences.
The government needs to wake up. This is not a problem about excessive pinging of the NHS app, but is a direct result of lack of effective measures by government that is allowing the virus to let rip throughout the nation. The BMA has repeatedly warned that amidst the highest levels of infections in the world, now is not the right time to abandon legal restrictions such as social distancing and mask wearing - and we are likely to see this situation continue to worsen as a result.

There's a lot of freedom warrior bullies about, ready to shout down anyone who can see beyond the rhetoric - what this country is doing is plain dumb, like a lot of its residents sadly

@lannistunut

To be fair the UK's reputation has been mildly trashed by the covid response, it does actually matter if all other serious leaders look at the PM like .

Yes.

Of course they'll judge. Current leaders, and future historians. Just as the media (and public) give their views on contentious leaders like Trump and Bolsonaro, so they will re the Westminster response to the SARS-Cov-2 pandemic.

For current leaders, it is as the WHO and other world experts have warned. The UK approach is immoral, unethical, and anti science.

The UK government is knowingly taking action that is killing and disabling many. And, running the risk of creating a vaccine resistant strain.

As other world leaders and experts have said. The UK is a danger, not just to its own people, but also to the whole world.

@Tealightsandd

Nowhere wants to emulate the UK. If other countries have any sense, they'll keep us plague islanders out. We're a high risk for a world and vaccine beating new strain.

We're a high risk for a world and vaccine beating new strain

Isn't it ironic, that being a highly vaccinated country, this is now seen as a negative!

I get your point, but isn't it odd how no-one worries about India, or Russia, or South America, Africa. Indeed, much of the Southern United States, Eastern Europe....... Sweden, who have always been light on restrictions.....Netherlands, who yes, recently had to re-close nightclubs, but pretty much everything else is light touch etc etc etc

They don't want to end up like the UK.

I have no doubt they don’t want to have high cases. It gets harder when lockdowns drive activity such as protests which are counter to keep them as low as possible. People go on about British being particularly bad at complying. This is fanciful. People in west behave similarly. Particularly Aus, US and U.K.

So far geography and timing has helped enormously. Posters going on about behavioural differences probably haven’t set foot in Aus, likely see relatives on social
Media or something.

Luckily my family is still in zero Covid place. I hope it lasts until vaccine is done.