Why is everyone so eager to get vaccinated?

[FTMF30]

What I mean by this is that a SAFE vaccine for coronavirus wouldn't be available for at least a couple of years. Vaccines need to be thoroughly tested and, although a lot of Mumsnetters don't like to believe it, vaccine injury IS REAL.

It's very sinister how very interested Bill Gates has become in the pharma industry in the last few years and how he advocates forced vaccines, or at least loss of freedom of movement/access for those who choose not to vaccinate (which is pretty much a forced vaccine). He doesn't care about vaccine injury as we are basically collateral damage to his end goal.

Is it not fair to be wary of a rushed vaccine? Is it not fair to not want to be vaccinated if I'm not fully ware of the implications just yet? When I come on here, I see a lot of people who are very happy that we have to stay inside (I understand the reason for this), I see people who are quarantining food and washing eggs and would take a vaccine if one was available tomorrow. I find it quite alarming how we've been fed stories about death after death after death, really biased stuff with hardly any balanced information. We've been frightened into being heavily controlled and that's the thing that really scares me.

Excellent work hooves. we're lucky to have to you.

We can't comprehend how those usual processes can occur within such a short time frame.

But it's not presented as that is it? it's not open minded and questioning .how it could be done at all. There have been some insightful posts about that.

It's all "it's going to be rushed through, not done properly, we're going to be experimented on. it's not possible. They're leaving out stages. it'll be mandatory. It's a Bill Gates plot blah blah blah. Negative closed minded uninterested really. And there has been some complete bollocks on here.

i don't know what is being done because I don't work in the field. AT ALL.

But at least I know what I don't know. Not like the 'experts' on here.

They are, to my mind theories with at least a modicum of plausibility.

Have you ever seen Black Mirror on TV. Similar.

Sorry, I don't watch much TV.

Would you particularly recommend It?

i think you could really enjoy it.

Well thank you, always happy to have new things to turn my attention to during lockdown

I haven't seen anyone say the things you are saying have been presented as "fact". People are saying that the time line is precipitous and that they are concerned that steps are being missed that would ordinarily be done. People are also questioning whether this might be a compulsory vaccine.

I'm certainly not closed minded. I have questions that I will want answered before I consent to have this vaccine, if and when it appears. You do seem closed minded though because you are adamant that it will be fully tested. The Dr that I linked to has developed a vaccine, he works with the CDC in America on vaccines that they approve. He condemned Andrew Wakefield's paper on MMR so he isn't just some quack that they found in a back street somewhere. He has doubts about how quickly this vaccine has been rushed to human testing but he is open minded about it so I don't see why you are so quick to dismiss his thoughts. I think they raise interesting questions.

Hearhoovesthinkzebras

I agree with your points, however I am stepping away from the thread. I have made my points and people are scared. They don't wish to entertain the idea that a vaccine may not be in their best imterests or mandated.
On balance, who can blame them?

I hope to revisit this subject when the furore has calmed slightly.
This thread will also stand for posterity.
My points have been stated and here they shall remain to either be proven or refuted.

Fingers crossed refuted.

The time line is very precipitous! There is a international emergency!

There are probably people working their guts out on this. There has been unprecedented global information sharing.

Of course there are concerns!

But please don't dispute the fact that the whole tone of this thread is that we ( the gullible population) are going to have an ( i quote) an untested vaccine foisted on to us by in a careless thoughtless way.

@Hearhoovesthinkzebras

the tone is def not " please share info how they are going to make this vaccine work?"

Its not that you're going to at all.
Its that it is a possibility, but I can see that this troubles you and that is completely understandable. It troubles me greatly too.

Hopefully it won't happen.
Entertaining the possibility that it could is not intended as a personal attack on anybody, least of all those of you who disagree.

HotSince82

I completely agree with your last two posts.

As I said much earlier, time will tell. I remain hopeful that a vaccine will be developed. My guess is that it won't be within 18 months. We shall see.

There are probably people working their guts out on this. There has been unprecedented global information sharing.

Yes, I agree. But there are aspects that can only be done with time.

Imagine baking a cake. It wouldn't matter how many people you had available to weigh the ingredients or stir the batter it would still take an hour to bake. Doubling the number of cooks won't halve the time it needs in the oven.

My view is that whilst it might seem that a vaccine could be pushed through 'too quickly' another thought might be that actually every country, every scientific area in vaccines are working together on one single thing which will naturally accelerate research and testing.

I am not an expert but it doesn't take much reasoning that in normal times they wouldn't be open and working together on one thing and thus that by it's very nature slows up production and testing.

If one becomes available and it means my freedom to travel and work is lifted then I will be inclined to take it.

As I said much earlier, time will tell. I remain hopeful that a vaccine will be developed. My guess is that it won't be within 18 months. We shall see.

totally agree with you here @Hearhoovesthinkzebras . Although have NO IDEA how long it could take.

But I remain positive.

Theres no way I would be taking this vaccine. There are people having terrible side effects from vaccines that have been developed 50 years ago so who knows what side effects this new one will have. Id rather take my chances. I dont wash my groceries either lol

please save me

Last evening on radio 4 I was listening to a former chair if the WHO. He was saying that vaccines normally take 10 years to develop and test. 18 months is radically fast. That was a former chair if the WHO speaking!

is this a positive ( great motivation, achievement, innovation) or a negative ( rushed, impossible, sloppily done ) ?

Last evening on radio 4 I was listening to a former chair if the WHO. He was saying that vaccines normally take 10 years to develop and test. 18 months is radically fast. That was a former chair if the WHO speaking!

Exactly.

is this a positive ( great motivation, achievement, innovation) or a negative ( rushed, impossible, sloppily done )?

The thing is, as a PP said, great motivation, info sharing, loads of money, etc. can only take you so far. Proper testing takes time.

Now obviously they're going to wait until they're reasonably sure any vaccine is safe before they authorise it, but it's risk vs. reward, isn't it? For someone at higher risk of death from Covid, the risk of taking a rushed vaccine (I'm not using the word rushed pejoratively there) is likely worth it. For someone who is young and healthy, maybe not so much.

Also the meme is pretty cool.and makes the point that anti vaxxers are prepared to take larger risk because they perceive a small risk.

The point is that some of us believe that a vaccine made in 18 months could have more risk for us (in the young and healthy group) than actual coronavirus.

I didn't work in vaccines but I worked in Phase 3 drug trials - they take YEARS, and the approval process takes about a year with lots of back and forth. I have no idea how essentially First in Human + Phases 1/2 + Phase 3 + Approval could be done in 18 months. It doesn't matter how many people work on it, the trials need to run for a certain amount of time to test efficacy and safety rigorously.

Also, I never said that it's fine for people with underlying conditions to die - my point was that reporting people with illnesses/obesity as "healthy" overstates the risk in genuinely healthy people, which is actually tiny. It's going to make it harder to convince those people to go back to work when the government runs out of money and needs to get healthy people back to work.

The point is that some of us believe that a vaccine made in 18 months could have more risk for us (in the young and healthy group) than actual coronavirus.

This point exactly.

It makes me think that they have already been working on a coronavirus vaccine but then that spooks me the fuck out too. Looking back at Bill Gates twitter feeds from last year, he talking about an exciting new vaccination project. Either massively serendipitous or this is a big opportunity for him.
I dislike trump, but I'm impressed that the states has dropped the predicted contaignon modelling that Gates has been pushing and are instead using the real figures, which are less pessimistic. Gates has been playing simulation games about a global pandemic just a month before this all kicked off. It's just too odd.

The point is that some of us believe that a vaccine made in 18 months could have more risk for us (in the young and healthy group) than actual coronavirus.

I would envisage a vaccination for COVID-19 being recommend for vulnerable groups, much like the flu vaccine, which young and healthy people don't have as a rule.

Such a vaccination would be on the NHS for vulnerable groups and anyone else who wants it could pay small fee. (I pay for the flu vaccine whereas my DH gets it free on the NHS because he has asthma and is therefore considered to be in a vulnerable group.)