Pro-Israel - I don't understand

[plsexplaintome]

I've NCed for this as MN can be a vicious place lately, this thread may be a bad idea but hoping some genuine people will respond with their perspective.

Obviously there's a lot of nuance, but I don't understand how so many people seem to be pro Israel? My family are Jewish (I'm not as my mother isn't, but my dad's side are) and none of us support what Israel are doing. They say that as Jewish people, they don't want to see their people commit a genocide and push people out of their homes as this is exactly what's been done to Jewish people throughout history. And we don't think it's necessarily antisemitic to be against the actions of a government. (Though clearly some people are being antisemitic under the guise of defending Palestine)

Of course, Hamas has done awful things and I don't mean to say it's okay. But it seems like Palestine is fighting back after decades of oppression and violence committed against them by Israel. It's the actions of a desperate people - it's awful violence, but if it weren't for Israel, there would be no need for violence at all. You can't continually kick a dog and complain when it bites back?

I'm not looking for an argument so may not post again here as I don't want to argue withother opinions - I'm just hoping to hear from other perspectives. A lot of the media and public seem very pro Israel and I just don't understand. I'm not talking about protests here in the UK, as that's a whole other mess that's really muddying the waters and I'm not sure Palestinians would want these people speaking for them. If you are pro-Israel, please explain why as I feel I'm missing something here

What’s their ratio

People always mention the blockade in Gaza, but wasn’t it only implemented almost two years after Israel’s withdrawal and after Hamas had been elected?

@Alittlefeedbackwouldbenice if the poor children of Gaza don't have chocolate, or paper to draw on, I wonder why Egypt can't send some across? As you know, they have a large land border with Gaza, and used to rule it.
I'm not being flippant, because I actually have every sympathy with the people of Gaza, and have been shocked and distressed by the horrors unfolding.
However, I think that it's a little more complicated than the Israelis banning pasta, or anything else.

15 Israelis have been killed by Hamas rockets since October 2023

Yes, I think the timeline was Israeli withdrawal in 2005, and Hamas elected, then a blockade?
Correct me if I'm wrong.

Interesting how so many of these types claim to be Jewish or have Jewish ancestry.

I’ve never met a Jewish person who did not have a pretty firm handle about what’s going on and my feeling that is these confused alleged Jewish people are bad actors.

And 7/10 rather grotesquely demonstrated why it was necessary.

Paper

https://www.un.org/unispal/document/auto-insert-201200

I'm interested though in (a) what you think Gazans version of the iron Dome would be made of, given that chocolate passata and paper were considered too dangerous for the Gazans to possess (b) whether you actually believe Israel would have allowed them to make it, considering they're not allowed to control their own borders, sea or air?

A good article re the blockade quote from 2006

”Israel knows how much food is needed. It has been calibrating hunger in Gaza for decades, initially calculating shipments to exert pressure while avoiding starvation.

“The idea is to put the Palestinians on a diet, but not to make them die of hunger,” a senior adviser to the then prime minister, Ehud Olmert, said in 2006. An Israeli court ordered the release of documents showing the details of those macabre sums two years later”

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2025/jul/31/the-mathematics-of-starvation-how-israel-caused-a-famine-in-gaza

Do you know about the Iron Dome?

Because Israel imposed the same blockade via things coming in that route. Or more precisely didn't allow the Rafah crossing to be for goods, in general, and what there was had to be checked by Israel.

Yes only wish America would fund one for Gaza like it does for Israel

@Beachtastic

Ah, that well-know impartial observer, the UN, and its UNRWA scandal.

I'm interested though what you think Gazans version of the iron Dome would be made of, given that chocolate passata and paper were considered too dangerous for the Gazans to possess

I'm afraid you may have to revise your view as them as poverty-stricken and deprived. For decades, $$$$$$$ billions have been given to them in international aid, not to mention sponsorship by the obscene wealth of oil-rich countries such as Qatar.

Despite their lack of chocolate and pasta, the poor dears somehow managed to build this
https://www.reuters.com/graphics/ISRAEL-PALESTINIANS/GAZA-TUNNELS/gkvldmzorvb/

Thank you.

I wish everyone could read your post which explains things from a humane and personal viewpoint.
I found David Baddiel’s book Jews Don’t Count interesting too.

The rise in anti Semitism in our hitherto tolerant country chills my Anglo Saxon blood to the bone.

Yes, I know, but why didn't Egypt negotiate with Israel to have goods sent in, checked at the Rafah Gate?
I suspect too difficult for all involved, and I know the Egyptians want to keep the Palestinians at arms' length, so to speak

Why should America fund it? Hamas could easily have afforded it. Do you have any idea how rich they are? They've just spent all the $$$$$ on efforts to destroy Israel. Because they are right-wing fundamentalist Islamic terrorists.

You weren’t talking about ratios in your pp though, you said “Israel is killing civilians and not soldiers because Gaza is not a nation state and doesn’t have a military like a nation state would have”, so it sounded like since there’s no military in Gaza everyone is a civilian.
As for the ratio, it doesn’t help that the Gaza Ministry of Health isn’t distinguishing between combatant and civilian deaths.
But why on earth would Israel target only civilians and not Hamas?

Not quite sure what your point it here, but if you are trying to say only 15 Israelis have been killed against the higher death toll in Gaza, then you can only make this case if you ignore the actions of Hamas over that time.

Within a year of October 7th 2023, 27000 rockets had been fired into Israel. The low death roll from that is because Israel has invested in the defence of its citizens through the Iron Dome. Its not because Hamas have not tried to kill tens of thousands of Israelis. They'd be delighted to slaughter all of them.

Hamas, on the other hand, has invested in war with Israel at the expense of its citizens. Not even expense, it is very clearly for anyone who has eyes to see, that Hamas is deliberately using the deaths of its citizens in its war propaganda. They have not invested in defences for their citizens. The tunnels they built in preparation for their planned war with Israel that they provoked on Oct 7th, could have been used to defend their citizens, and lead to a much, much lower death toll but they didn't, and don't to this day, want to do that. That would be counter to their aims.

So no, this is not a case of poor, weak victim Hamas being nice and hardly killing any Jews, whereas nasty Israel is killing loads of Gazans. Its a story of genuinely genocidal Hamas wanting to murder as many Jews as it can and to sacrifice its own citizens to do so.

Israel protects their civilians, Hamas don’t.

And yet somehow, despite not being able to get basics like chocolate and paper, according to you, Hamas managed to get into Gaza all the arms and rockets and materials to build 450 miles of tunnels. Looks like Hamas was not bothered about its citizens having paper or chocolate either then 🙄.

And as I said upthread, Hamas had a choice to build up a peaceful state and build trust and relationships with Israel, and it chose instead to do the opposite and continue conflict. At the cost not only of Israeli citizens, but also of its own.

It also tends to get lost that (I understand) life in Gaza, and between Gaza and Israel was, in 2023, improving. Many people from Gaza were working in Israel, getting medical care in Israel etc. Things looked set to get better. Saudi was going to recognise Israel and work on the 2 state solution looked possible.

This is precisely why Hamas attacked

If you’d like to truly understand I can provide you with a history lesson right here.
https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/islamists-are-the-true-cry-bullies/

What is concerned i g OP is that you've acknowledged you're very limited understanding of the politico-religious history of the region yet call/called yourself pro one side abd then another. Why? Two years ago, my understanding was also very limited. I have spent hours and hours reading 100s of documents, books, watching documentaries and even watching films. I consider myself now quite knowledgeable although still nowhere as knowledgeable as some posters, and I still feel it is not enough to be in a position to believe I one side over the other. The more I read and the more I can see how there is no right or wrong, just a successions of events that have just made relations worse every decades.