Pro-Israel - I don't understand

[plsexplaintome]

I've NCed for this as MN can be a vicious place lately, this thread may be a bad idea but hoping some genuine people will respond with their perspective.

Obviously there's a lot of nuance, but I don't understand how so many people seem to be pro Israel? My family are Jewish (I'm not as my mother isn't, but my dad's side are) and none of us support what Israel are doing. They say that as Jewish people, they don't want to see their people commit a genocide and push people out of their homes as this is exactly what's been done to Jewish people throughout history. And we don't think it's necessarily antisemitic to be against the actions of a government. (Though clearly some people are being antisemitic under the guise of defending Palestine)

Of course, Hamas has done awful things and I don't mean to say it's okay. But it seems like Palestine is fighting back after decades of oppression and violence committed against them by Israel. It's the actions of a desperate people - it's awful violence, but if it weren't for Israel, there would be no need for violence at all. You can't continually kick a dog and complain when it bites back?

I'm not looking for an argument so may not post again here as I don't want to argue withother opinions - I'm just hoping to hear from other perspectives. A lot of the media and public seem very pro Israel and I just don't understand. I'm not talking about protests here in the UK, as that's a whole other mess that's really muddying the waters and I'm not sure Palestinians would want these people speaking for them. If you are pro-Israel, please explain why as I feel I'm missing something here

If need it screenshotting let me know.

Absolutely this. Hamas do not want peace.

This is a religious-political Islamist movement for them.

What a terrible opinion to give. Nazi ideology? Awful phrasing and so deliberately provocative to Jewish communities. Shameful.

I'm not sure why you sing things were getting better considering that even before the 7/10 attack it was the most deadly year for Palestinians in a long while. Israel had stepped up their attacks, and Netenyahu was presenting his ideas for a Israel having taken over West Bank and Gaza.

Yes, I agree, I was thinking "literal Nazi ideology" was inappropriate, on what has, for the most part, been a reasoned and interesting discussion.

Jesus. How can anyone believe this. Go and read up about the Nazis and the Holocaust and then you will see what nonsense you are talking.

If the Nazis had all the Jews gathered in one place, with all the arms power Israel has, what do you think would have happened? If all the Jews were in a space the size of Gaza, what do you think would have happened? They'd have killed them all. Nazis murdered 80% of all the Jews in Europe, that's about 40% of all the Jews in the world at that time. 10% of Gazans have been killed. And its only that high because Hamas has refused to shelter its citizens in its tunnels ( which it could do as Israel gives advance warning of its strikes), and its only that low because Israel gives warning of its strikes so Gazans can leave before bombing, gave safe passage for citizens to return after the first ceasefire. Israel has also been feeding the population and undertaken a polio vaccination programme for children.

And of course none of these attacks would have happened if Hamas had not broken the ceasefire that existed prior to October 7th, and it could have all concluded a lot sooner if they returned the hostages.

Israel has been clear from the beginning? Who was it then who started the current war?
And why did Israel withdraw from Gaza 20 years ago if all they ever wanted was to wipe them out?

From what I understand, many of the people in the Kibbutz attacked on October 7th were actively helping Gazans…

@Imtootired Please don't accuse people of "pearl clutching", it diminishes debate. It's perfectly valid to challenge content of posts and how they are expressed.

You know that this was a report with calculations, not something they actually did, right? These are the words of an adviser to the then Israeli Prime Minister, a sick idea someone made the calculations for but this was not a plan that was ever put into action.
The Guardian mistakenly refers to this as Israel's policy but it never was, although members of the Israeli govt at the time were definitely not averse to considering how they could turn the chaos of Hamas' election win into an opportunity to increase civil unrest and put pressure on Hamas to recognise Israel. Maybe Hamas could've chosen to do things like pay Gazans' wages rather than murder their political opponents and immediately start firing missiles over the border into Israel, causing retaliatory strikes and security alerts that shut down crossings.

If we take your figure that 10% of Gaza has been wiped out are you ok with that? How would you feel if 10% of your country was violently wiped out?
As for Israel not wiping out the Palestinians quickly enough for you to say it’s genocide, it is a different world from the 40s. There is the UN and social media. Again I go back to my previous comment to say anyone who can justify this is losing touch with humanity

Yes, they regularly took them to hospital appointments etc, supported their employment etc. And the attackers were able to gather intelligence for tge attacks because of their access. Reprehensible.

Without any judgement from me on the rights and wrongs of Israel's actions since October 7th, can I ask what you think Israel should have done?

Absolutely reprehensible. And yet some people believe the attackers acted out of pure desperation…

Those who could get permits to access care, see below. I agree it deeply sad that many of the Israeli’s killed unfortunately seemed to care more for Palestinians and understand their plight better than both the Israeli government and many posters on here do

“In 2022, 20,295 permit applications were issued for Palestinian patients in Gaza. Most (35%) were cancer patients. Of the 20,295 permit applications, 33% were delayed or denied. Nearly one-third (29%) of the patients applying for a permit were minor children who needed a companion, but 62% of companion permit applications were delayed or denied, and 25% had to proceed to treatment without their companion.[24] The vast majority of unsuccessful patient permit applications do not receive any explanation of the reason for denial or delay.[25] A survival analysis conducted by the World Health Organization for Gaza patients referred for cancer therapy from 2008 to 2017 revealed that delays or denials of permits increased the likelihood of death from cancer by 1.5 times.[26]”

Excellent article. Thank you for sharing it.

This is a weird conspiracy-like comment. I'm not Jewish, my dad's side of the family are. They do have a much better understanding than I do, but I don't want to keep asking them about it as it's quite a difficult subject for them to discuss, as you can probably imagine.

How would you feel if your child’s or partners permit to access cancer care was delayed or denied without explanation and they subsequently died???

But these were for patients seeking permits to travel 'into' Israel for treatment right? Not seeking permits to travel to their own hospitals?

Hamas certainly do not protect their citizens.

They are also somewhat faceless. Who here knows (without Googling) the names of any Hamas leaders? I do wonder if that makes people less able to identify them as 'baddies' and allows them to fade into the background, minimising their actions and their responsibility to the Gazan people.

Yes as the treatment was not available in Gaza due to the Israeli blockade

Go Isreal! Boo to Hamarse.