Pro-Israel - I don't understand

[plsexplaintome]

I've NCed for this as MN can be a vicious place lately, this thread may be a bad idea but hoping some genuine people will respond with their perspective.

Obviously there's a lot of nuance, but I don't understand how so many people seem to be pro Israel? My family are Jewish (I'm not as my mother isn't, but my dad's side are) and none of us support what Israel are doing. They say that as Jewish people, they don't want to see their people commit a genocide and push people out of their homes as this is exactly what's been done to Jewish people throughout history. And we don't think it's necessarily antisemitic to be against the actions of a government. (Though clearly some people are being antisemitic under the guise of defending Palestine)

Of course, Hamas has done awful things and I don't mean to say it's okay. But it seems like Palestine is fighting back after decades of oppression and violence committed against them by Israel. It's the actions of a desperate people - it's awful violence, but if it weren't for Israel, there would be no need for violence at all. You can't continually kick a dog and complain when it bites back?

I'm not looking for an argument so may not post again here as I don't want to argue withother opinions - I'm just hoping to hear from other perspectives. A lot of the media and public seem very pro Israel and I just don't understand. I'm not talking about protests here in the UK, as that's a whole other mess that's really muddying the waters and I'm not sure Palestinians would want these people speaking for them. If you are pro-Israel, please explain why as I feel I'm missing something here

Historically, what did innocent Palestinian children do?

I don't think many people are pro-Israel. There are hardly any at pro-Israel protests and I've not met a single person in real life who remotely likes Israel.

I think many people are against the Israeli government, the media is very pro-Israel and are pushing that narrative with the Israeli government in this "war".

Yes, it's more of a media push than actual people supporting Israel. It's all just for the powers at the top to make more money than they already do whilst we quibble amongst ourselves.

It's a clear genocide and anyone who even attempts to support that is disgraceful.

I think you need to understand a very long history @plsexplaintome because you sound pretty ignorant about some basic stuff.

Nobody supports genocide. The issue is that peilople disagree as to whether the current war is genocide. Perhaps if all the effort debating that question went into building peace we might get somewhere.

I obviously don't think literal children are provoking war, what a silly response. I'm clearly talking about leadership, government, those with power. Is it so hard to have a good faith discussion?

My limited best to answer you:

Here is a list of documentaries.
https://www.imdb.com/list/ls521366443/

Then more recently,

”Israel and the Palestinians: The Road to 7th October” on BBC Two and available on BBC iPlayer. Here is a Guardian review, pointing out that it only starts from 2003 ( instead of right back to early 20thC) but praising it.
https://www.theguardian.com/tv-and-radio/2025/feb/24/israel-and-the-palestinians-the-road-to-7th-october-bbc-review-deserves-nothing-but-praise

From rarlier there is a BBC Documentary
”The Fifty Years War: Israel and the Arabs”
www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episodes/p0glc7yp/the-fifty-years-war-israel-and-the-arabs

Look up a documentary
”Al-Nakba”

There are some documentaries about Israel illegal settlers in the West Bank.
One recently was “No Other Land”

This is an ITV one.

Louis Theroux did one
”The Settlers”
https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/m002bm1y

There must be many more
Israeli newspapers that give an idea of what is happening including allowing criticism are Haaretz ( includes analysis and investigation), and The Times of Israel ( clear reporting, less critical and investigative, but even).

Haaretz is under a paywall but their articles are often archived.

+972 Magazine ( investigative, critical).

Then you will know the U.K. news media.

The London Review of Books has articles

Wikipedia has a lot

The threads earlier (first year or eighteen months) in the Conflict in the Middle East board included some very knowledgeable but respectful posters of whom two in particular come to mind ‘Scirroco’ and ‘Israelilefty’ (spellings?). Israelilefty was not there as long. She was on Ask Me Anything. There were some others too who were very knowledgeable and included links to information whose names I cannot recall. There are thousands of pages though.

Nothing, not sure how that answers my question to the OP though.

Because they have been killed and displaced by the Israeli government well before Oct 7 and treated the same as in your examples as innocent people. It wasn't as if Oct 7 happened randomly out of nowhere.

If the destruction of over 90% of infrastructure and the starvation of children/babies doesn’t move people, the terminology used to describe it probably won’t either.

So the slinging match continues.
Some good recommendations on here, thank you to posters who have sign posted podcasts, documentaries and books.
I would just say this, OP. Anyone who thinks they have a simple answer, or just uses slogans to close a debate, does not have a complete understanding of this complicated geo- political historical issue.

Yes but that still doesn't make October 7th a dog biting back, like it's in some way understandable. Two wrongs don't make a right you know.

There is a lot of simplistic, prejudiced foolishness on the pro-Palestinian side (illustrated above - nobody ‘likes’ Israel, apart from the media who are all pro-Israel). Personally that has given me more sympathy for the Israelis than I used to have - I see a lot of the criticism of them being rooted in support for the omnicause, rather than coming from a place of genuine, nuanced understanding.

Of course not but it happened. Not out of nowhere that's my point.

I think you are entirely missing the point. People aren't generally moved by labels.

Nobody likes genocide. Nothing to do with liking innocent Israeli people. The media have a different narrative and they want to push that.

I think when you see comments like that that tap into well-worn tropes its worth being very wary. Objectively I don't think anyone sensible would argue that the media is pro-Israel.

you need to get out more! And read more books. But mainly you probably need to meet more people who don't think, act, and look like you

Haven't RTFT, but just had to hop in here and mention that people were not just "shot and raped." Gazan civilian mobs swarmed through the broken fences to gleefully take part (survivors describe them laughing all the time), and by all accounts took things to a level that Hamas might not originally have planned. The victims were bludgeoned to death, burned alive, mutilated, tortured, and trophies (like scalps and eyes) were taken from their bodies. Women were raped while alive, dying, and dead; one had her breasts sliced off and kicked around in the dust. The perpetrators used the victims' phones to livestream this to friends and family of the victims. The attacks were celebrated joyfully in the streets of Gaza, including a well-known video of Shani Louk's mangled semi-naked corpse being paraded in the streets on the back of a truck, with the crowds rejoicing and spitting on what was left of her.

Anyone who debates the proportionality of Israel's response might want to consider how the UK would retaliate for a similar attack on our own soil.

I think there is a widely held misconception that Jews didn’t exist in the Middle East until 1948 and that after the war European Jews came in and stole a country. It’s not that simple. There have been Jews on that land(which was British) as well as Jordan, Lebanon, Syria etc etc forever.

That is true but you look at the proportion of Jews to Palestinians living there in 1878. According to the Ottoman census of that time, you see it was not at all like the present: Jewish people represented just 5%. (Screen shot from ‘Demographics of Historic Palestine’
https://www.cjpme.org/fs007)

Jewish emigration to Palestine began to grow in the 1920s and 1930s under the British Mandate after WW1.

And what about before Oct 7 or even before Hamas came into power with everything the Israel government has done to innocent Palestinians? Did the war only start on Oct 7 or with Hamas?

Oh my goodness, yes- this, absolutely!

I think there is a widely held misconception that Jews didn’t exist in the Middle East until 1948 and that after the war European Jews came in and stole a country. It’s not that simple. There have been Jews on that land(which was British) as well as Jordan, Lebanon, Syria etc etc forever.

That is true but you look at the proportion of Jews to Palestinians living there in 1898

It was at that point part of the Ottoman Empire. It was boosted by migration from Egypt, but also other areas.