Gaza Flotilla - genuine peace activists or Hamas puppets?

[TicklishMauveSquid]

It has been reported that these activists have rejected the Italian government and the Vatican's proposal to unload any aid they are carrying in Cyprus, to be transferred peacefully to Gaza.

They seem intent on sailing into a legal blockade in a warzone as a direct provocation to Israel who will be forced to take control of 50 boats and the people on them.

They have made lots of unproven allegations that Israel has attacked their boats which may well be to precursor violent resistance in 'self defence'.

They could be carrying anything, including weapons.

There is quite compelling evidence of Hamas/Muslim Brotherhood connections to this so called humanitarian flotilla, which could be considered perverse in the extreme seeing as Hamas has caused the humanitarian crisis in Gaza.

https://govextra.gov.il/mda/march-to-gaza/the-hidden-networks-behind-the-global-sumud-flotilla

Hundreds of Israeli boat owners are being encouraged to counter protest in Navy approved zones (without interfering) as a presence 'a blue and white wall for the hostages'.

What do we think the outcome of this will be with Italian and Spanish Navy vessels in the mix?

This is quite a different situation than the ONE boat in the earlier failed attempt to breach the blockade this year where the 'activists' were peacefully appeased with sandwiches and sent on their way (after refusing to watch footage of Oct 7th).

I think it is also that Hamas have deliberately orchestrated this misinformation through a sustained PR campaign that began with the first "pro-Pal" rallies in London, which were organised as the 7/10 attacks were still unfolding in Israel and took place the following weekend. They immediately presented it all as understandable "resistance to oppression" (a view that holds instant appeal for Brits with a chip on their shoulder), and have created a massive gaslighting smokescreen to divert attention from their own culpability. It helps that Hamas's perfectly simple and clearly stated founding principles - the eradication of Israel and the Jews - is impossible for (mostly secular) Westerners to get their heads round. Surely no one could really, seriously, actually be that mad, bad and dangerous?! Well, yes, they obviously can; as 7/10 proved.

Surely no one could really, seriously, actually be that mad, bad and dangerous?!

Yes, it’s like when people tie themselves in knots explaining how “Death to the IDF” definitely doesn’t mean death to the soldiers, all those young men and women, but simply a call to dismantle that particular institution 🙄
(Never mind what dismantling their defense force would mean for the safety of the Israelis…)

Interestingly Pakistan and Bangladesh were created at the same time, as a solution to the same problem (sectarian violence) but the millions displaced during partition don't have a worldwide movement fighting for their return or agitating for the dissolution of those countries.

True. I saw Pakistan being mentioned on another Israel-Gaza thread the other day, and someone was quick to point out that it’s apparently not comparable.

No ones interested, no Jews involved.

Are you talking about the Biharis? There are about 150,000 now of them not “millions”.

Interesting that you would pick the Pakistan/bangladesh spilt as a comparison. Although Pakistan was spilt at a similar time , there was no Bangladesh until after an absolutely brutal war. Millions fled to India. Obviously the creation of Bangladesh was the resolution for the millions that maybe you are thinking of?

I suppose it was comparable in some ways. But then the creation of the Bangladesh state largely resolved any ongoing refugee issue.

Who do you see Israel as comparable to in this situation?

I'm sorry, but I have to call this out.
It's pretty offensive to accuse everyone of inherent antisemitism. Imagine if someone lumped all Jews together, as you have lumped all Christians together, and all Muslims together? That would be quite rightly called out as prejudice. So, it's equally prejudiced in reverse.
Of course antisemitism is obscene. But, so is Islamophobia, Christianophobia or any other form of racial and religious prejudice.
It's very problematic that some people conflate love of Israel (no matter what its leaders and military do) with sympathy for Jewish people generally, and criticism of Israel with antisemitism. It creates a culture of fear, and makes balanced conversation impossible. It also is very unfair on Jewish critics of Israel.
This may not be intentional always, and I'll give you the benefit of the doubt and assume you really think what you've written, in which case I'm so sorry for you that you think that. But, the problem is it distracts from real antisemitism. Which I know has risen, and that's dreadful.
The Israeli government & military is committing a genocide. The Gazans are suffering to a hellish extent. The British government is utterly complicit. That's the reason people are so upset. Obviously some antisemites are misusing the situation for their own hateful ends, and that's disgusting. But, I genuinely believe (knowing my own mind, and speaking extensively with others) that that's a minority. I really believe that most people aren't inherently hateful. Most people have far more good in them than bad I think.

Jewish peace activists on board the boat Conscience have been abducted at sea and are being illegally detained in Israel. Before their abduction they explained their reasons for joining the flotilla and the damaging nature of Zionism.

https://www.facebook.com/share/v/1BRdHiCJLP/

🥱🥱🥱🥱🥱🥱

Funny you yawn when you previously said
“These people have an underlying hatred of Jewish people either from brainwashing growing up within their family or from company they’ve kept when older but still impressionable.”

There has been a lot of posters that question whether jewish people do campaign against genocide and for Palestinian rights, implying that anyone who claims to be jewish or has jewish peace activist friends are lying - despite large amounts of jewish peace activists joining all of the anti genocide marches. This implication that jewish people all support Israel’s actions borders on antisemitism as it implies all jewish people are the same and think the same.

You should listen to watch the jewish peace activists have to say and listen to a different perspective, they make a lot of valid arguments!

My yawn was nothing to do with these activists being Jewish so I don’t get the relevance of your post.

It was about the hysteria of useful idiots (Jewish or not) pleasure cruising into a legal blockade in a war zone knowing full well they would be stopped from going to Gaza and would simply be deported, and hate mongerers trying to deliberately flan the flames of hate against Israel saying they’ve been abducted and held against their will, is a disgustingly ploy to insinuate a comparison between the Israeli hostages starved and tortured in Gaza for two years.

I personally think the Jewish activists are at best dangerously naive because some of the people they support would not hesitate to kill them or take them as real hostages if they entered Gaza, and they really SHOULD watch the Oct 7th videos to get an idea of what they really think of Jews.

It was obvious your yawn was just about them being activists repeating the same tired trick and nothing to do with them being Jewish activists.

You seem to have forgotten Sikhs displaced from the north ....

When has anyone questioned whether Jewish people campaign as part of the pro Palestine movement? I don't think I have ever come across tbat.

Yesterday on the thread where someone asked why people support Israel there was one and I have seen similar in the past where people have questioned the truthfulness of pro Palestinian posters who say they are jewish. You were posting on this thread too - I am surprised you did not see it.

Thar's a slightly different issue. Thinking people may not be arguing in good faith on MN (quelle surprise!) Is not the same as saying there aren't Jews in the Pro-Pal movement. Everyone knows there are.

Out of curiosity, what happens to the boats once they're intercepted? Does Israel give them back or confiscate them? I've tried searching but couldn't find an answer and thought someone in this thread might know.

I agree with @SharonEllisand undoubtedly there are Jewish people who are not zionists and are
’pro pal’s’ but the ‘I know loads of Jewish people’ etc crew just doesn’t ring true to me for a variety of reasons.

@KoalaKoKo also people don’t acknowledge why exactly members of a sect or the ultra religious may not have the same motivations. It’s used as a gotcha moment.

Because that happened during the partition of India not the creation of Bangladesh. I’m going to wager a guess it’s because of the lack of a movement within this community themselves to return for many different reasons.

Ultimately the example of the Bengalis is much more similar. They were left stateless.

But regardless the attention on the Palestinians, particularly at this time, stems from the western governments support of their suffering.

I’m not even talking about historical support. The support of western government of this very war has all contributed to what is looking an awful lot like a genocide. Hence the anger, the international condemnation from many sides.

Well I do genuinely know Jewish people who are involved in the pro Palestinian movement. But that’s because I met them through it. They are all Irish born Jews, the odd American.

I also know Israelis. I don’t know them well, but many would work with my husband. We would all politely avoid the topic on social occasions, but they seem to have a different opinion. But ultimately I don’t blame some random Israeli working in tech here for the actions of the Israeli government in Gaza. I feel like it would be rude to bring it up.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Partition_of_India

...which refers to when Bangladesh was created as East Bengal, during partition.

I don’t understand how this contradicts anything that I have said.

@quantumbutterfly all this “look over here” stuff . Look at how badly these people were treated in the 1940’s. I don’t get how it absolves Israel of committing genocide today.

I’m from a country that was badly treated by Britain in the relatively recent past. But things have moved on. Things have moved on in the republic because we had our own state, and subsequently been able to prosper. So now Ireland and the UK are friends. Things did not move on in the North of Ireland because a portion of the population were treated unfairly. But since the GFA things have somewhat moved along.

Things change, atrocities happen in the past but things can move along as long as everyone has a chance to live in safety and prosper.

The creation of Israel was devastating for Palestinians but that doesn’t mean that everything should return to how it was before. Most Israelis were born in Israel now and they have a right to live there too.

Being pro Palestinian doesn’t mean being against the existence of Israel, it just means being against the non existence of Palestine.

The country that became Bangladesh (aka East Bengal) and Pakistan were created at the same time during partition along sectarian lines.