AIBU to be glad Lammy is taking a stance on Gaza?

[Locutus2000]

Whatever you think about Hamas - October 7th was an abomination - but surely it's been enough for some time now?

Thankyou.

They could have had their own state in 1948. They chose war instead.

Not many people on here seem to know this.

Yes. When one Hamas fighter is in hospital, they deliberately place dozens of innocent men, women, children and newborn babies there who don’t really need medical treatment… You keep telling yourself that.

To the posters who asked how anyone can still defend Israel, here is a perfect example of that.

He should have gone further. How can this be happening in this day and age?
That poor doctor on the news today … so heartbreaking. I was wondering how we can help.

You think if the people of the UK were forced tomorrow to give up half of the UK to the immigrants we’ve had over the past 30 years, they would blindly accept it? Or they would refuse and fight for their homeland?

Are you referring to the Israeli hostages or the thousands of Palestinian hostages even before October 7th?

When why are you on this thread? Spare us.

1948, the Palestinians had more than half their land taken away

I can’t imagine ANYONE being happy about that, whether you’re Palestinian, Jewish, Arab, English, American. Even animals get pretty pissed off when their territory is taken

So quit trying to tell us all that the Palestinians should have just bent over. We stitched them up like fucking kippers

Much too little, much much too late. He should hang his head in shame for his inaction to date. Of course I’d never vote Labour anyway …

I think you’re wrong. I believe that the majority of the UK population believe that what is being inflicted upon the civilian population of Gaza is very wrong. Unfortunately they, like me, can do nothing whatsoever about it.

This with bells on.

Another weak excuse to justify the years of abuse and control over the Palestinians. It’s wearing thin now.

Amazing to see how ignorant people still are.

What hamas have done to Israel is a drop in the ocean compared to the atrocities Israel have committed. They are the definition of a terrorist state.

Look at the West Bank (ethnic cleansing). This is supported by the majority of Israelis going back decades. Never forget.

@MrsSkylerWhiteI agree.Extremely ill informed. Even more Israelis than not are against what us currently happening. Those on here justifying have a political, rather than patriotic, agenda.

This isn't a useful analogy.

The proposed UN partition proposed more land for Palestine than it has any hope of getting now.

If they had just accepted rather than choosing to try to annihilate all the Jews instead then we wouldn't be here right now.

Mis representing history doesn't help anyone.

Painting Israel as an oppressor and Palestine as a victim is over simplifying a very complex issue and does neither side any favors.

Exactly - it makes me sick. Netanyahu is a war criminal. The people of Palestine have been let down time and time again.

Genocide is being committed and the powers that be don’t care. It breaks my heart - those poor, terrified , innocent children

I think we also need to recognise the importance of the UN’s actions, as well as those predominantly of Britain and France. We knew a hell of a lot more about the treatment of Jews in Nazi Germany, but we refused to accept refugees. Kindertransport was fine to an extent, but many adults were left behind and murdered, simply because we didn’t want the inconvenience of handling a significant refugee problem (note the actions of the Daily Fail)

We pushed for the UN plan. We wanted to assuage our own guilt. It’s not in the national interest to call Israel out on its actions now, which is why it has taken so long for us to actually say anything let alone take any action. It’s not in the national interest to do the right thing, because it would mean admitting that we royally fucked up

And that’s how we’ve arrived at a situation with gaslighting en masse. It’s very unlikely that the Palestinians will ever get anything like the (under) 50% they were originally given. But let’s be blunt - why on earth should they have had to accept that in the first place?

This isn't a fair representation of the situation.

Both Jews and Arabs lived on legitimately owned land in Palestine. They fought. Fairly constantly. For hundreds of years. The British tired of trying to administer the area, and played both groups off against each other. They handed the issue to the UN who proposed a partition that Israel accepted and the Arabs in the area did not.

Whatever you feel about this, there were Jewish people on the land and Jewish roots to the land go back thousands of years. They needed to be there. Where else better for them to be?

There's way too much misrepresenting of history on here.

It’s a very relevant analogy. Just because they could have had more land then than now it doesn’t take away the fact that you’re using their refusal to give up their homeland against them. Which group of people would happily give up half of their land for others?

You make it about this so called annihilation of Jews to perpetuate this idea that it’s all about Jew hate but you conveniently ignore how welcoming most Palestinians were to the Jewish newcomers. If it was about hating Jews, then seeing as Palestinians far outnumbered Jews, they would have annihilated them when they arrived. This has nothing to do with fighting with Israelis because they’re Jewish. It’s because they invaded their land and took their homes.

But a bunch of other countries aka The UN decided to give half the Palistinian’s country away! Why the hell should they just accept it?

This just isn't true.

I've summarized it above but you can look this up from much more reliable sources than me. There were Jews and Arabs there. They both have the right to be. If you don't want Jews to have any land where they are indigenous then where else do you expect them to live... Given the persecution they were experiencing in Russia, Europe, all over the ME.

Both groups deserve a homeland in the area.

Fair point - yes, the playing off against each other was horrendous

ok, so what would a fair analogy be - all residents of the Isle of Wight being given half the UK? Or those who arrived in the uk from the commonwealth being given half the uk? (Trying to work it out in my own head!)

@BreezyBertha more targeted ground assaults, less indiscriminate bombing of large cohorts of civilians.

Honestly I don't think there's a fair analogy anywhere. Given the specific importance of Jerusalem and the duration and depth of hatred...
I do think both groups deserve to be there and the only way morally acceptable is for them both to find a way to live alongside each other.
With both Netanyahu and Hamas gone.

Seriously! The Arabs (as they identified then before identifying as Palestinians in the 1960’s to aid their cause to annihilate Israel) in the geographic region of Palestine in 1948 and before, did not have a sovereign State, it was not their territory, they were part of the Ottoman Empire, then under a British mandate who captured the territory from the Ottoman Empire.

Many Arab workers emigrated into the region in the early 19th century, to work in the budding economy
(created by the Jews). Below are a few common surnames among Palestinians in Gaza and the West Bank.

Sidwai family - "from Sidon" (Lebanon)
Inshasi family - "from Inshas" (Egypt)
Halabi family - "from Halab" (Halab is Aleppo in arabic)
Harami family - "from Haram" (Syria)
Zarqawi family - "from Zarqa" (Jordan)
Al-Sorani family - "from Soran" (Iraq)
Al-Karaki family - "from Karek" (Jordan)
Hejazi family - "from Hejaz" (Saudia Ariba)
Al Kiswani family - "from kiswah" (Syria)
Al-masri family - "The Egyptians" (Egypt)

Yasser Arafat was an Egyptian!

So whose land was taken away?

It was divided so both peoples could have their own land, economy and autonomy. The Jews were allocated a large area of desert.

Instead of rejoicing and declaring their own independence in the region (after the area being part of the Ottoman Empire for centuries), like Israel did, the Arabs decided to declare war, then a few more wars, then decades of terrorism then war again.

They weren’t bothered about creating their own State while the area was illegally occupied by Egypt for almost twenty years.

I gently advise you do some research, which isn’t TikTok, if you want to give a serious opinion.

@dairydebris if Netenyahu and Hamas were both removed, do you think that there is any hope for the hatred to subside on either part?

I can’t help but think that Hamas is deeply unpopular with Palestinians, Netenyahu is hated by so many Israelis, is this potentially common ground?