330 reported killed so far in today's airstrikes

[Scirocco]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/czje23jd779t

New evacuation orders have been issued. Israeli government reported as saying they will fight until their war aims are achieved.

There was a ceasefire.
Israel broke it.
They are perpetuating conflict.

I don't think anyone on this thread is saying what happened last night is ok or justifiable in any way? It is shocking and tragic.

To criticise Hamas and point out their actions in October were evil too is not the same as saying last night's attack was justifiable.

If we all had a bit more humanity we would be against all violence and evil.

I'm not clear on your answer here, are you meaning you approve of Britain having bombed large areas of civillian Germany just because we would have suffered if we lost?

The current population does not mean that they are not being wiped out. Gaza has one of the highest birth rates in the world. Maybe we should blame them for having so many kids, instead of blaming Israel for murdering innocent children? The deflection argument should not be if there is an increase in population, the deaths/injury rates should be used to show that there is nothing "defensive" about Israel's policies.
ETA: I'm glad you brought up the topic of the displaced Palestinians worldwide. They deserve a right to return.

I have already acknowledged that Israel's actions were awful and unjustifiable but happy to say it again.

But I don't need to start a new thread if I want to respond to a post on this thread and it's not like Hamas are completely irrelevant to what happened last night.

Very few are displaced. This isn't like ukraine where people were moved out, the neighbouring countries refused to support the Palestinian civilians to do that and so most Palestinians living elsewhere are economic migrants prior to the war.

You have heard of the Blitz I presume? The bombing of Coventry. War is hell, you can self flagellate about it in retrospect. They say hindsight is always 20/20.
Asking if I approve of the bombing of Dresden is nonsense. Ask wartime UK civilians about the terror of hearing a doodlebug go silent overhead. Talk to UK people of my dad's generation about living in the rubble or picking through it for survivors. There is nothing noble about war, it's a desperate bloody fight on both sides, I am no cheerleader for warmongers whichever side they're on, if your country is at war you pick a side, thank your God if you have the luxury of not needing to.

I don't normally post here either, but have some thoughts.

A spokesperson on Radio 4 just now mentioned the proxy war between Iran and Israel.

I was struck a couple of weeks ago by a photo in the Guardian of Hamas fighters lined up, masked, holding their guns. Watching were some ordinary Palestinian men and children - all grubby, poorly dressed and with badly fitting shoes. The fighters, by contrast, had smart uniforms and shiny new boots. So, they are directly funded by Iran? Paid a wage? It reminds me of Afghanistan where impoverished farmers had the chance to join the Taliban and get a wage and food.

Israel for ages has had to deal with bombs on buses and in hotels in Tel Aviv, bomb scares at the airport... So OK, they want to get rid of Hamas and make life safe for their citizens. So if all those masked fighters and their leaders were to hand in their weapons, hand over the hostages and go back to being civilians, Netanyahu and his cronies would have no excuse to bomb hospitals etc because they might be "harbouring terrorists".

But OTOH, Palestinians want freedom from this horror and to live peacefully their own land. So if Iran were to formally recognise the State of Israel and withdraw their support for Hamas, would that mean no need for the hostilities? I don't know, but it might be the beginning of the end.

Then there could be an election in Israel and moderates could take over. I'm encouraged by the new government in Syria - they seem to be saying the right things (reasonable and pragmatic).

I note no one has answered your question.

My heart breaks for them imagine waking up to that you put your child to sleep last night and woke to no child this morning it’s unimaginable.

The ethnic cleansing began decades before Hamas they were created as a resistance force against a brutal occupation they are a direct symptom without the subjugation of the Palestinians Hamas would be redundant.
Netanyahu also funded Hamas to divide Gaza and the West Bank it was a tactic to stop a two state solution when Qatar said they were not going to fund Hamas Netanyahu send Mossad to Qatar to strong arm them into continuing the payments and from then on the money was delivered in cash it was brought in suitcases with the full cooperate of the Israelis.

Are you actually a Hamas spokesperson? They are a resistance force against a brutal occupation?

Do you honestly believe it's all so completely one sided? You think Israel oppresses the Palestinian nation for what reason? Shits and giggles? Or because they are evil?

There's a whole complex history behind these 2 groups, both of them have the right to be there, and their ongoing inability to figure out how to live next door to one another is causing untold suffering. One siding it like this just perpetuates the hatred. Constantly posting vitriol not backed up by facts perpetuates it. Don't you think it'd be better to try to understand the complex reasons behind the hatred?

I think people probably thought that it was rhetorical? You can Google and find out why Hamas say they did what they did.

The issue now is that instead of choosing a ceasefire that was all laid out for them that would have had the hostages home by now and would have seen someone else take charge of Gaza Israel have chosen to kill children in their beds again. Lots of children died last night because of Israels choice. People are understandably upset and angry that those children have been needlessly killed and others have had their lives changed forever because of Israels choice.

For land. It has always been about the land.

for one thing lammy does right regarding the conflict … gets told off

Downing Street rejects Lammy’s claim Israel broke international law in Gaza
Foreign secretary receives rare public rebuke as No 10 rows back by saying Israel ‘at risk’ of breaching rules

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2025/mar/18/downing-street-rejects-lammy-claim-israel-broke-international-law-gaza

It wasn’t rhetorical. I wanted the person I asked the question of to answer the question giving their opinion and nothing to do with Google.

I don't buy that. I think it's simplistic.

Palestine was offered more land than it's currently got a few times. Israel has agreed to those borders. No Palestinian leadership ever has, preferring to try to get rid of Israel entirely.
Israel had settlers in Gaza before 2005. They had to be forcibly removed from their homes. Ethnic cleansing of Israelis if you fancy calling it that? They were forced out to make room for an ethnically homogeneous Palestinian area.

I know Israel has taken more land in the wars since it's birth. But a decent argument can be made for wanting a buffer zone from the terrorists around them trying to blow up their buses.

I know Jerusalem is an area of huge contention. I know it wasn't initially meant for Israel. But given it's historical significance I can understand why they wouldn't let it go now. Of course there's huge significance for Muslims too. I think it would have to be internationally governed.

But no, I don't think it's all about land. I think it's about security. And I think it's about the significance of Never Again.

And I really don't think anything about it is simple 😭

I think that's slightly distorting the facts, Palestine was offered back some of the land after alot more was forcibly taken from them through bloodshed to create a hostile state that would then go on to oppress them and steal more and more land for decades.

Jenbristercomedy on Instagram has a post:

"Dear David,

I wonder if you'll read this e-mail or if it will simply be read, logged, and ultimately ignored by one of your assistants.

Either way, here I am finally writing to you 17 months after this horrendous genocide in Gaza began. Yes, that's right David, I'm calling it what it is, something that, shamefully, you appear unable to do."

She tagged him in, and given his Instagram account. This is also his e-mail address: [email protected]. and [email protected]

@dairydebris the withdrawal of settlers and military from inside Gaza in 2005 was a decision made by the Israeli government at that time, which went through legal channels including ratification in the Knesset. There were a number of motivations for it, including recognition that the withdrawal would help avoid excessive international pressure on Israel to reach a more comprehensive political settlement with Palestine. People living in the settlements were provided with compensation and resettlement packages elsewhere. This was not ethnic cleansing but the government-mandated withdrawal of occupying forces and settlements which had been built in the area, on Palestinian land.

The land was won from Palestinians in wars started by surrounding Arab nations, in hopes of destroying Israel and grabbing some land for themselves. Israel has defended herself and won land doing so. It was ever thus. That's how nations are often made.

Again. You're one siding it.

If we can't sympathize with each other's point of view then there's no hope of reconciliation ever.

I think the Palestinian nation deserves a homeland. I think they have ties to the land called Israel right now. I think they've been massively let down by leadership in the last 80 years or so. I feel despair for those caught up in this, trapped in Gaza with no end in sight, oppressed by Israel and by their own government.

But you're painting it as if Israel are the oppressors for no reason here.

It's much more complicated than that.

Haaretz (Israeli news)
Analysis today
Excerpts without links:
Israel's Renewed Gaza Offensive Exposes Netanyahu's Real Goal: Political Survival Through Endless War
Israel's renewed operation in Gaza is framed as a way to break the deadlock in hostage talks and defeat Hamas – but Netanyahu's real aim is a series of urgent political goals: restoring Ben-Gvir to the government, passing the budget and shoring up his coalition

^There's no other way to explain it: Israel knowingly violated the cease-fire agreement with Hamas – with American
approval – because it didn't want to fully meet the terms it had committed to two months ago.^

Hamas is a murderous terrorist organization, and the war began at its sole initiative and responsibility with the surprise attack on southern Israel on October 7. But Hamas' psychological abuse of the hostages and their families during the recent release phases cannot be described as a significant breach of the agreement on its part.

It was Israel's government that failed to uphold the agreement when it didn't complete the promised withdrawal of IDF forces from the Gaza Strip in recent weeks, particularly from the Philadelphi route along the Gaza-Egypt border.

Hamas refused to turn a blind eye and move forward with the release of hostages under the new mediation proposals put forward by the Americans, which caused the negotiations to stall. In response, Israel resumed fighting early Tuesday morning. ..……..

and,

Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu will likely argue that only renewed military pressure will enable the return of the 59 hostages, both living and dead, from Gaza. But that justification is no longer convincing.

Nearly 40 hostages have died in Gaza under various circumstances since they were taken hostage alive from Israeli territory on October 7. Renewed military pressure clearly endangers the surviving hostages, could further worsen their already unbearable conditions in captivity, and in an extreme scenario, might even push Hamas to harm some of them in retaliation.

One of the things that emerged clearly from the testimonies of some of the hostages released in the past two months is that Hamas frequently moved them between different locations.

Israel's security agencies did not have real-time accurate intelligence on the whereabouts of many of them. This means that it will be impossible to carry out airstrikes and a ground operation with confidence that the hostages won't be harmed

<a class="break-all" href="https://archive.ph/2025.03.18-145912/www.haaretz.com/israel-news/2025-03-18/ty-article/.premium/israels-renewed-gaza-offensive-exposes-netanyahus-goal-political-survival-through-war/00000195-a83b-d922-af9d-be3f58640000" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">https://archive.ph/2025.03.18-145912/www.haaretz.com/israel-news/2025-03-18/ty-article/.premium/israels-renewed-gaza-offensive-exposes-netanyahus-goal-political-survival-through-war/00000195-a83b-d922-af9d-be3f58640000

We can argue the semantics all we like about history and who did what to who over the past 80 years but no one can deny what happened last night was evil.

A democratic country launched an attack on civilians that had led to the deaths of over 400 people.

There is no justification for these murders and we Israel have just reduced themselves morally to the same level as Hamas with a surprise attack on innocent civilians.

I can't ever agree that Israel is on the same moral level as Hamas.

But my heart absolutely goes out to all the victims of last night's attack and of course to the hostages still being held and probably losing all hope.

💔

BBC verify have said they can confirm the horrific footage of dead and injured being dug up from the rubble of one of the strikes is a school that was housing displaced civilians.

No words.