Ireland believe genocide being perpetrated

[username7891]

I'm surprised this hasn't already been posted but Ireland passed a non binding motion a few days ago that “genocide is being perpetrated before our eyes by Israel in Gaza”.
https://www.standard.co.uk/news/politics/micheal-martin-ireland-south-africa-gaza-people-b1192666.html

It means that Irish people are perfectly happy to expel colonial powers from their own nation using violence when necessary, but loudly deny Israel the right to do the same. If it was wrong of Israelis to force Palestinians to move out of Israel when it was formed, it was also wrong for Irish people to force British people to leave when Ireland became independent. They're morally equivalent actions. Both are indigenous groups expelling an occupying force.
The only reason the situation is so awful for Palestinains today and totally a non-issue for descendents of British people who left Ireland is because Britain allowed their expelled citizens to be citizens still and buy houses, live like normal people etc. There are Palestinian refugee camps in Gaza for Palestinian people whose "homes" were in Israel 3 or 4 generations ago. That would be like the people of Birmingham keeping the people of London in refugee camps for generations rather than just letting them live like normal people in Birmingham. Jordan also has refugee camps full of Palestinains who are not allowed to become citizens ever after 4 generations of living in Jordan. Jordan, Israel and Palestine were all the same administrative region under the British empire, Palestinians and Jordanians were the same people then.
Irish support of Palestine often (although not always) is direct support for Hamas. You see a lot of Irish people proudly wearing symbols of terrorism like a keffiyeh. While supporting a theoretical future Palestinian state isn't inherently denying Israel the right to independence, or safety, supporting any of the current Palestinian leadership options is. That is because even the moderates in the West Bank do not recognise Israel's right to exist as a Jewish state, so advocating for them to lead a fully functional sovereign nation is advocating for them to attack Israel.

@Purspectiveplease are you ok?

I feel like I'm reasonably well versed on the history thanks. Since its independence, Ireland has done several profoundly anti semitic things, so it's reasonable to conclude that there’s at least some antisemitic tendencies baked into the culture. If you could see past that, you would see that Ireland has more in common with Israel than Palestine and probably also realise how stupid your response here was.

I guess not

You'd think they'd be able to see that giant Arabic speaking, Muslim Caliphate which spread across the Middle East during and after the Arab Conquests has more in common with the British Empire than little Israel does. Historically Ireland has been extraordinarily antisemitic. They've not exactly done a good job of making right on that, and now they're pro-Palestinian. It's not a huge jump to see the common thread there.

I'm fine thank you. If you have something meaninful to add to the conversation, please do.

If it means conversing with you @Purspectiveplease I'll pass

It means that Irish people are perfectly happy to expel colonial powers from their own nation using violence when necessary, but loudly deny Israel the right to do the same.
What colonial powers are Ireland denying Israel the right to expel?

If it was wrong of Israelis to force Palestinians to move out of Israel when it was formed, it was also wrong for Irish people to force British people to leave when Ireland became independent
What British people did we force to leave? We got our independence from the British state we didn't banish British people from the country. Not sure if you've ever been here but there are plenty of Scots, Welsh and English living here, my husband included.

You see a lot of Irish people proudly wearing symbols of terrorism like a keffiyeh.
The Keffiyeh is a symbol of terrorism? Since when?

While supporting a theoretical future Palestinian state isn't inherently denying Israel the right to independence, or safety, supporting any of the current Palestinian leadership options
No one is supporting Hamas as a leadership option

That is because even the moderates in the West Bank do not recognise Israel's right to exist as a Jewish state, so advocating for them to lead a fully functional sovereign nation is advocating for them to attack Israel.
So you are not in favour of a two state solution?

I think the reason that Israels fans will always bring it back to 'Ireland is antisemitic' is because they can't quite grasp that not everybody is obsessed with Israel, not everything is centred around Israel. Ireland has recognised Palestine, it has appointed an ambassador to Palestine, it is speaking out about the genocide of Palestinians. Ireland centres Palestine and Palestinians. Ireland wants Palestinians to be free from apartheid and occupation, much like Ireland was vehemently opposed to the apartheid in SA.

It isn't about Israel, it's about Palestinians. Some people will never be able to understand that because to them Israel always comes before Palestinians, it just does, no questions asked, so if somewhere or someone centres Palestinians it fries their brain a little bit. I've realised that it is a belief system that won't be overcome no matter how many children are killed or how many courts decide against Israel. Therefore they will never believe that Ireland actually care about Palestinians and that's OK, Ireland doesn't need their approval.

Exactly

Yes of course that goes without saying. Edited to add my own father doesn't agree with Irelands position on Palestine and would be very pro Israel but tbf this stance has been tested this year for him.

@Purspectiveplease what British people were expelled after 1921?

Also glad to know my crystal ball is in tip top condition....Ireland is anti semitic was on my bingo card for this thread. (Did not predict a poster comparing Ireland to Israel.. that's a new one on me...)

My mum would have known very little and this year would have been influenced by MSM. I asked her just to read the book Mornings in Jenin because she is a huge reader and I think that really opened her eyes.

Totally agree. Amazing how many people manage to convince themselves otherwise though.

My dad knows a lot he used to be a history and politics teacher and watches and reads all politics and current affairs around him. We've interesting discussions but I do have to bite my tongue a lot for fear of falling out with my elderly dad

And good on Ireland! Wish our bloody Government would find a backbone and admit what's going on is a Genocide.

I genuinely think you need to read an Irish history book. Comparing ousting of invading English from our shores is not comparable in any way and shows massive ignorance.

Ireland has always identified with the Palestine people and their fight for the right to live in land that is their own food generations.

We have had experience of losing our land to others and the condescending attitude to us since.

I strongly suggest you read some Irish history. The fantasy you have assigned my country is imaginative.

Anyone who considers what Israel is doing as understandable is under a huge disillusion. They are stopping food and medical supplies get to innocent people.

And believe it or not as an Irish person I am able to distinguish between Palestinian people and Hamas .

@Marblesbackagain rewriting history is a common theme here.

That's very nasty.

That’s very relatable 😉😁

Ive just come back from seeing Small Things Like These . Excellent film and book . Ireland and the Catholic Church has made a lot of mistakes - as have all countries and all religions . No country or religion ( and by that I mean the human representatives of the country or religion) is purely good or bad . The important thing is to be honest and open about the mistakes of the past.

They seemed to give a shiny shite when Ireland formally recognised Palestine as a sovereign and Independent state, in fact they seemed to have a lot to say on the matter

I understand that you’re a staunch Zionist but you really are embarrassing yourself with these kinds of statements now.

I live in Ireland and am baffled by why people consider themselves akin to the Palestinians. They aren't - the average Gazan would consider Irish people to be pork eating infidels.

I think there are a number of reasons: an Israeli/Jewish perspective or historical background is never presented - particularly by RTE, which issues reports by Hamas' "Health Ministry" verbatim - forgetting their usual obsession with fact checking. People are never told about the thousands of Jewish communities from Morocco to Tajikistan that have perished under Ottoman and other Arab/Muslim expansion, and that Israel is the only remaining territory in which Jews have a chance of defending themselves.

The Israelis are a convenient fit for the need for a baddy among the virtue signallers that fill the major political parties - as long as nobody looks too deep.

Casualty numbers are substantial - as Hamas knew they would be, but there is no genocide. There would have been had Hamas not been stopped on October 7th. Hamas would slaughter until no Jews remain as per their stated objectives. The Israelis have no such goal, but are continually forced to react defensively.

The media in Ireland is full of the heroics of their battalion of UN peacekeepers - there to monitor the peace. As far as I can gather, they have been sitting and watching Hezbollah missiles flying overhead from Lebanon into Israel for a good number of years now.