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Conflict in the Middle East

Ireland believe genocide being perpetrated

356 replies

username7891 · 09/11/2024 22:24

I'm surprised this hasn't already been posted but Ireland passed a non binding motion a few days ago that “genocide is being perpetrated before our eyes by Israel in Gaza”.
https://www.standard.co.uk/news/politics/micheal-martin-ireland-south-africa-gaza-people-b1192666.html

OP posts:
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username7891 · 09/11/2024 22:57

Martymcfly24 · 09/11/2024 22:44

Suspending the airspace involves running into a diplomatic crisis with America as well as Shannon is a very important refueling stop for them. I think with the new President Elect this could be very contentious.

The Bill only stops trade with the Occupied Territories in the West Bank not the whole of Israel I think.

Edited

I'm also wondering how this will work in reality.

OP posts:
Janedoe82 · 09/11/2024 22:58

JaneJeffer · 09/11/2024 22:54

That's a whole nother country @Janedoe82

Tell the shinners that lol

Zucker · 09/11/2024 22:58

The Bill hasn't passed yet because they didn't get it through before the Dail was dissolved for the upcoming election. When they eventually get their arses back into the Dail it can proceed again.

https://www.oireachtas.ie/en/bills/bill/2018/6/

Control of Economic Activity (Occupied Territories) Bill 2018

https://www.oireachtas.ie/en/bills/bill/2018/6

username7891 · 10/11/2024 03:49

gestroopd · 09/11/2024 22:56

I don't see how this will work re the use of Shannon airport. And like a pp said, the new US government.

However, maybe it can find allegiance with Spain (and Norway??) and be less isolated in this.

Especially because the EU is split over this. In The Netherlands, a Dutch Muslim being beaten up by a Zionist is antisemitic... mini Germany really. So we need Ireland and Spain to join forces and not be two split entities battling separately within the EU.

Spain is refusing ships carrying arms to Israel to dock at it's ports:

“This will be a consistent policy with any ship carrying arms to Israel that wants to call at Spanish ports. The foreign ministry will systematically reject such stopovers for one obvious reason: the Middle East does not need more weapons, it needs more peace.”

I assume that's what you're referring to. Let's hope others follow suit.

OP posts:
Alphaalga · 10/11/2024 04:34

"I know, let's distract from the genocide with baseless accusations of antisemitism".

Some might have expected more empathy from a nation remaining so defined by its own past experience of atrocity.

Whatsinanamehey · 10/11/2024 10:49

I say good for Ireland, may this be the start of many other countries recognising Israel's genocide against the Palestinians. There needs to be strong sanctions against Israel.

Silence1 · 10/11/2024 12:22

Martymcfly24 · 09/11/2024 22:44

Suspending the airspace involves running into a diplomatic crisis with America as well as Shannon is a very important refueling stop for them. I think with the new President Elect this could be very contentious.

The Bill only stops trade with the Occupied Territories in the West Bank not the whole of Israel I think.

Edited

Shannon Airport has been discussed previously and back in Nov (don't know if it has changed) the position was:

"Mr Varadkar said there were “very strict rules” around the US military’s use of the airport.

“There aren’t flights going from the US through Shannon to Israel,” he said.
“There are troops being carried to US bases and anybody carrying munitions needs permission and a licence.
“Under the terms of the Air Navigation Foreign Military Aircraft Order 1952, all foreign military aircraft wishing to overfly and land in the state require diplomatic clearance from the minister of foreign affairs.
“This is subjected to strict conditions with full respect to Ireland’s policy of military neutrality, including that the aircraft is unarmed, that it carries no arms, ammunition or explosives, that it does not engage in intelligence gathering, and that the flight in question does not form part of a military exercise or operation.

“The policy is well known and fully understood by the United States and other international partners, and it’s done in compliance with Ireland’s traditional policy of military neutrality.”"

Purspectiveplease · 10/11/2024 15:07

I do not understand why Irish people see themselves in Palestinians. Palestine is an outpost of a caliphate which violently expelled the majority of the indigenous people. The Arab conquests and the massive Arabic speaking, Muslim empire they created is much more analogous to the British Empire than to Ireland. The Israeli fight for independence is more similar to the Irish struggle for independence. Many British people who had lived in Ireland for 800 years were expelled from their homes and Irish people don't seem to advocate returning them, even if they still own their keys. But somehow they deny Israel the right to independence that they enjoy. Maybe it’s poor history education, maybe it’s the echo of old Catholic antisemitism or maybe it’s just plain old modern antisemitism.

JaneJeffer · 10/11/2024 15:15

Many British people who had lived in Ireland for 800 years were expelled from their homes
Must have been vampires?

ScrollingLeaves · 10/11/2024 15:16

It may also be of interest to those Americans who have Irish heritage.

Dulra · 10/11/2024 15:16

Purspectiveplease · 10/11/2024 15:07

I do not understand why Irish people see themselves in Palestinians. Palestine is an outpost of a caliphate which violently expelled the majority of the indigenous people. The Arab conquests and the massive Arabic speaking, Muslim empire they created is much more analogous to the British Empire than to Ireland. The Israeli fight for independence is more similar to the Irish struggle for independence. Many British people who had lived in Ireland for 800 years were expelled from their homes and Irish people don't seem to advocate returning them, even if they still own their keys. But somehow they deny Israel the right to independence that they enjoy. Maybe it’s poor history education, maybe it’s the echo of old Catholic antisemitism or maybe it’s just plain old modern antisemitism.

I have posted this before I think this article explains it very well.

This article explains very well why the Irish feel a kinship with Palestine and why they have supported them for decades. It is not true that it stems from antisemitism and to suggest it is, is dismissing the similar struggles Irish and Palestinians have endured often at the hands of the same people in Britain. Some key extracts to explain where this relationship stems from.
www.npr.org/2024/03/14/1233395830/ireland-pro-palestinian

Some extracts:
Until 1921, what's now the Republic of Ireland was a British colony. Northern Ireland remains part of the United Kingdom. And many Irish people say their experience of British occupation — as well as their own sectarian conflict, and 19th century famine — gives them empathy and shared history with the Palestinian struggle.

Ireland may be a mostly white European country, but many Irish people say they identify more with the Global South's experience of imperialism and colonialism.

"It's the same with South Africa, it's the same with South America," says Kirsten Farrelly, an activist with the group Mothers Against Genocide, which stages weekly demonstrations outside the Israeli Embassy in Dublin. "All these scars are being opened up in us, when we see what's happening to the Palestinians."

Another thing Ireland and Palestine had in common were the Black and Tans. They were a brutal British police force named for the color of their uniforms, and infamous for killing Irish civilians in the early 20th century. After Irish independence, the Black and Tans deployed to British Mandate Palestine, where they exercised colonial power over the mostly Arab population there.

The article also goes into detail why Ireland is often perceived as anti Israel and their role in WW2

Article also highlights:
Ironically enough, Ireland started off as pro-Israel. A lot of Irish people back in the early 20th century identified with this idea of this displaced people who have gone through turmoil throughout history — just like the Irish," Clarke says. "And the idea of them getting their own state, their own home appealed to a lot of Irish people. They said, let's give them somewhere safe."
The current Israeli president, Isaac Herzog, traces his own ancestry back to that era. His father and grandfather were both born in Ireland. The latter served the country's chief rabbi, nicknamed the "Sinn Féin Rabbi" for his republican politics and fluent Irish language.

It was well after Israel's founding, Clarke says, when it annexed and occupied more Arab land, that Irish public opinion flipped pretty dramatically.

Nearly 80 years later, de Valera is not seen as a Nazi sympathizer — neither in Ireland, nor Israel. In fact, there's a forest dedicated to him in northern Israel.

"So when people say Ireland was antisemitic in World War II, it's almost weaponized against people in Ireland who want to speak out against Israel," Clarke says.

www.jta.org/archive/irish-jews-dedicate-forest-in-israel-in-tribute-to-de-valera

Dulra · 10/11/2024 15:20

Purspectiveplease · 10/11/2024 15:07

I do not understand why Irish people see themselves in Palestinians. Palestine is an outpost of a caliphate which violently expelled the majority of the indigenous people. The Arab conquests and the massive Arabic speaking, Muslim empire they created is much more analogous to the British Empire than to Ireland. The Israeli fight for independence is more similar to the Irish struggle for independence. Many British people who had lived in Ireland for 800 years were expelled from their homes and Irish people don't seem to advocate returning them, even if they still own their keys. But somehow they deny Israel the right to independence that they enjoy. Maybe it’s poor history education, maybe it’s the echo of old Catholic antisemitism or maybe it’s just plain old modern antisemitism.

Many British people who had lived in Ireland for 800 years were expelled from their homes and Irish people don't seem to advocate returning them, even if they still own their keys
What does this mean?

But somehow they deny Israel the right to independence that they enjoy.
They don't deny Israel anything. Why does supporting a sovereign state of Palestine deny Israel independence?

PurpleChrayn · 10/11/2024 15:25

This reply has been deleted

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Usernamesareboring1 · 10/11/2024 15:26

@Purspectiveplease Perhaps it is because of some of the literal shared history. You could start by googling the Black and Tans.

The Israeli fight for independence is more similar to the Irish struggle for independence
This is an embarassingly stupid thing to say.

ScrollingLeaves · 10/11/2024 15:34

This reply has been withdrawn

This message has been withdrawn at the poster's request

GhostCicada · 10/11/2024 15:35

Gaza's population has risen since Oct 7.

@PurpleChrayn you have said this before and I asked you where you have gotten your figures from but you never answered. It would be great if you could answer here. How many people have died in Gaza since Oct 7 not just directly by Israeli bombings and shooting but indirectly through untreated illnesses, disease and malnutrion? How many bodies are under the rubble? How many live births have happened in Gaza since Oct 7? What are your sources for this information?

Dulra · 10/11/2024 15:40

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I can say quite categorically that Israel gives not one shiny shite what an irrelevant nation like Ireland believes.

What a pleasure person you are.
Yes Ireland is a tiny irrelevant nation no idea why it seems to get so much attention. Clearly seems to hit a nerve with some.

Dulra · 10/11/2024 15:41

GhostCicada · 10/11/2024 15:35

Gaza's population has risen since Oct 7.

@PurpleChrayn you have said this before and I asked you where you have gotten your figures from but you never answered. It would be great if you could answer here. How many people have died in Gaza since Oct 7 not just directly by Israeli bombings and shooting but indirectly through untreated illnesses, disease and malnutrion? How many bodies are under the rubble? How many live births have happened in Gaza since Oct 7? What are your sources for this information?

Edited

Not sure why we waste our time with this hateful poster.

Whatsinanamehey · 10/11/2024 15:43

This reply has been deleted

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If misinformation was a post...

Where to even start or is it worth even bothering when the same poster writes the same lies on every thread despite being corrected numerous times. Israeli propaganda is one hell of a drug.

ScrollingLeaves · 10/11/2024 16:05

I have asked for my post to be removed, even though I think the linked article made valid and interesting historical points, as I found out after posting that one of writers had also written about Oct 7 as positive resistance but without any reference to the terrible atrocities committed by Hamas on innocent Israelis.

LetThereBeLove · 10/11/2024 18:28

I've just seen Small Things Like These. The Irish should stop throwing stones at glass houses.

JaneJeffer · 10/11/2024 18:29

LetThereBeLove · 10/11/2024 18:28

I've just seen Small Things Like These. The Irish should stop throwing stones at glass houses.

You're making a holy show of yourself

Dulra · 10/11/2024 18:50

LetThereBeLove · 10/11/2024 18:28

I've just seen Small Things Like These. The Irish should stop throwing stones at glass houses.

Saw it this afternoon too, pretty depressing that's what you got from it

We are standing up and facing our past and owning the mistakes, as unpalatable as they are. The church and society were complicit in what happened but show me a country that doesn't have uncomfortable skeletons in its closet.

Dulra · 10/11/2024 18:52

LetThereBeLove · 10/11/2024 18:28

I've just seen Small Things Like These. The Irish should stop throwing stones at glass houses.

No idea why you picked that username it is the complete opposite of what you post. Lettherebehate would be more appropriate

Dulra · 10/11/2024 18:59

I also think our past and how intermingled our state institutions were with the Catholic Church is a good example of why it is important to separate the state from the church. Thankfully the churches influence on society is pretty much gone now.

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