Ireland believe genocide being perpetrated

[username7891]

I'm surprised this hasn't already been posted but Ireland passed a non binding motion a few days ago that “genocide is being perpetrated before our eyes by Israel in Gaza”.
https://www.standard.co.uk/news/politics/micheal-martin-ireland-south-africa-gaza-people-b1192666.html

Well you obviously didn't listen in class.

"Since the beginning of time" is a really obfuscating choice of words. Israel was Jewish for centuries before there even were any Christians or Muslims. If Britain's later claim to Ireland doesn't count, why should anyone else's later claim for Israel count?

Opposing zionism IS denying Israel's sovereignty. Zionism is the political movement for the existence of Israel. "From the River to the Sea" IS denying Israel's sovereignty. At every turn, “zionists” are labelled as the “baddies” in a narrative that, if transposed onto European countries, is told as a justified fight for independence.

Independence from who?

Israel was Jewish for centuries before there even were any Christians or Muslims.
Which Israel are you talking about here?

People are opposed to the illegal settlements and occupations. Not the sovereign state of Israel. Are you opposed to a two state solution.

Oh and Britain saw Ireland as inferior to them. The Irish were governed by Britain but they NEVER saw us as equal to them.

Does the definition of politicial zionism include the expansion of settlements?

If you have a substantive criticism, or you think anything I said wasn't factually accurate, I'd be happy to address it.

Ireland has been invaded by Britain since recorded history. That doesn't make it less Irish. Israel has been invaded by lots of people since recorded history. That doesn't make it less Israeli. Ireland had British people massacre innocent children and people in very recent history. That was wrong. Israel had Arabs massacre innocent children and people in very recent history. That was also wrong. If you’re offended by these parallels then I think it says more about your opinions about Jews and Israel than it does about my understanding of history.

So what you're saying is Israel is fighting for independence from Palestine?

@Purspectiveplease I don't understand why you are not getting this and your insistent is obviously only trying to get.a reaction.

Ireland is a sovereign nation, our land since the beginning of time. Our ancestors, culture and our own pre religions established our own gods and goddesses which still shape our nationality.

Israel meanwhile does not have the same history https://www.bbc.com/news/newsbeat-44124396.

I am not engaging with your ignorance anymore. You have been told to go and source a reliable source and become informed.

"From the river to the sea" has been a common, and virtually unchallenged, chant everywhere in the last year. That is a call for the total destruction of Israel, not the settlements. I've also seen maps of Israel where the entirety of Israel is crossed out and coloured as Palestine. Lots of people loudly and proudly claim "I'm not antisemitic, I'm just anti Israel / anti zionism.” Zionism is the political movement for the existence of a Jewish state, not for the existence of settlements.

I am strongly for a 2 state solution and as soon as the Paelstinains can elect a leader who is also advocating for a 2 state solution, I will support that leader. In the meantime, Gaza is led by Hamas whose constitution literally incorporates a clause about being committed to the destruction of Israel and the death of all Jews. I do not think Hamas, or anyone connected with them, can realistically be involved in negotiations to find a 2 state solution.

Arabs have historically considered anyone who is not Muslim to inferior to them. There was only ever “peace” for Jews (and other minorities) in the various eras of the caliphate if they consented to being treated as 2nd class citizens and paid extra taxes while being unable to enter certain professions, own land or access certain resources. The British treatment of Irish people was horrific and shameful, but so was the Arab treatment of Jews and other non-Muslims.

You may find this informative @Purspectiveplease. It goes on a bit but the start of the piece outlines the many reasons the Anglo Irish population declined in Ireland after independence, and most weren’t to do with being ‘forced out’.

www.quora.com/What-happened-to-the-Anglo-Irish-population-in-Ireland-after-independence

Zionism is one of the most successful decolonisation projects in history. Virtually the entire Middle East was once an Arabic-speaking, Muslim empire and now there is a tiny corner with a sovereign state which has the language and religion of the indigenous people, not the conquerors. I would say they have successfully fought for independence. Now they just have to defend it!

Does it?

My point was about the Ango-Irish people who were forced out, not the ones who stayed. In my analogy, the Ango-Irish who stayed would be the Arab citizens of Israel, not the Palestinian refugees in refugee camps.

By committing genocide? I think there's better ways of defending it

Israel is also a sovereign nation, Israeli land since the beginning of time. Their ancestors, culture and religion still shape their nationality too. Subsequently being swallowed up by empires doesn’t undo anyone’s right to their homeland and sovereignty in it, even if that sometimes requires war to achieve or defend. I don't understand how you aren't getting this.

Just because the histories are not 100% identical does not mean it isn’t useful and interesting to draw parallels between the (overwhelming majority of) aspects which are the same. Again, if you think I made a mistake in my summary of Irish history, please do tell me what part I got wrong. That’s an open offer to anyone reading this. If your objection is simply that you don’t like the similarities, or that you don’t like the cognitive dissonance that comes from recognising them, then I’d say that reflects more on you than on me.

It simply isn't the same. I am not going to go down the middle east worm hole. It isn't up to Irish people to educate you, it is up to you to go to a reliable source. Your comment about reflection is like a five year olds.

Goodbye stay in your ignorance of Ireland and whatever you do please stop telling us our own history 🤦‍♀️

Are you a political zionist?

I think, if you’re claiming my summary of Irish history is entirely wrong and yet you’re unable to identify a single statement I said which was inaccurate, you should probably withdraw your accusation. All you’ve done is call me names rather than address the substance of what I said.
If you feel that non-Irish people are not qualified to speak about Irish history then I hope you equally stop talking about the history of the Middle East.

Of course.

I don’t think your analogy works though.

👩‍🍳

Care to explain why?

But the Palestinians didn't come in, take their homes and make them pay rent to stay there, stop them from practicing their religion, starve them, send in their own special branch of police to keep control of them, ALL of which the British have done to the Irish through the hundreds of years of occupation here, so no there's no similarities whatsoever