The aftermath

[Auvergne63]

All wars end. I use the term "war" very loosely as I don't view this as a war.
What will happen to the Gazans? How can live in such devastation? How can they deal with so much trauma? Will they ever recover?
Gaza faces a massive reconstruction challenge. Here are key facts and figures | Reuters
The former Israeli prime minister Olmert thinks that Netanyahu has no plan for after the war. He has been a strident critic of his actions.
Ex-Israeli PM makes devastating condemnation of Netanyahu’s war in Gazan | The Independent
Here is a link to his peace proposal in collaboration with Nasser al-Kidwa
Former Israeli PM and former Palestinian foreign minister lay out joint plan to end Israel-Hamas war | CBC News

Sorry that was to ismu

@SharonEllis I see you have had my previous posts deleted.
It's really disappointing when people take views that align them with the very acts they purport to condemn.
Israel's actions are a stain on humanity.
They are in no way a stain on Jewish people. If you can't separate Jewish people from Zionists you will have difficulty criticising these crimes.

What exactly are you disagreeing with? Israel treats Palestinians as second class citizens and settlers displace them and bulldoze their property.
In fact one of the hostages from last year's dreadful attacks was involved in taking Palestinian children to hospital in Israel for cancer treatments. Because their parents were not allowed to go with them.

It is for the courts to decide if it is a genocide or not. Both our conflicting opinions are just that, opinions.
Oxfam seems to disagree with you that the figures are very low.
Daily death rate in Gaza higher than any other major 21st Century conflict - Oxfam | Oxfam International
Using publicly available data, Oxfam calculated that the number of average deaths per day for Gaza is higher than any recent major armed conflict including Syria (96.5 deaths per day), Sudan (51.6), Iraq (50.8), Ukraine (43.9) Afghanistan (23.8) and Yemen (15.8). These figures are per day.
It is 250 dead For Gaza on average.
It is worth adding that these figures are for January 2024.
The Jewish voice for Labour seems to disagree with you too.
Official death toll in Gaza now 40,000; when will the world says NO! | Jewish Voice for Labour
And another one
CONFLICT: Children killed in Gaza war infographic (graphicnews.com)

What exactly are you disagreeing with? Israel treats Palestinians as second class citizens

But Palestinians aren't Israeli citizens - why on earth would they be treated as if they were?
I'm not agreeing with the actions of settlers in the West Bank, btw. But Palestinians aren't Israelis. There are millions of Arab Israelis and they are certainly not segregated from roads or hospitals.

With due respect, I am sure @SharonEllis can speak for herself.

This.

My bad, I didn't realise no-one else was allowed to post on your thread.

No need to swear. You may find my argument inconsistent, but it doesn't mean it is. Opinions and facts are two different things.

Dear me.

To get back to the question.
I don't know what will happen, I don't think it will end well for Israel though. I've said this before, the world is changing and in decades to come I don't think Israel will be able to count on American or Europe support for it's actions or supply of weapons. It also can't bomb or occupy it's way to peace, that will just stir up even more hatred. I think Israel really, really needs a two state solution. I'm not sure that will be good enough though or will stop the rockets. I think the furture for both the Israelis and Palestinans and wider area looks bleak.

Dear me indeed.

Also, both sides seem so blinkered.
Example - the number of times the pro Palestine/anti war marchers have been described as nothing more than antisematic and that everyone on them supports Hamas.

What do you mean by

"If and when the inevitable unfolds, the Israeli government will only have themselves to blame"

What's the 'inevitable'

@Dariamar there are Palestinian Israelis but although they are nominally citizens they don't have the same rights eg. Schools are segregated, and as an example, Jewish people from across the world have right of return to Israel, but there's no such thing as right of return for Palestinian refugees.
In addition only5% of East Jerusalem Palestinians have been granted citizenship although this land was annexed by Israel in 1967.
More here
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/ArabcitizenssofIsrael

😂 it feels a bit like that on some of these threads.

there are Palestinian Israelis but although they are nominally citizens they don't have the same rights

There are over 2 million Arab Israelis and they do have the same legal rights in the eyes of Israeli law. From wiki:
" the Israeli Supreme Court has consistently interpreted "Basic Law: Human Dignity and Liberty"[301] and "Basic Law: Freedom of Occupation (1994)"[302] as guaranteeing equal rights for all Israeli citizens.[303"

They don't however have to do compulsory military service as there is an acknowledgement of conflict of interest (eg possibly having Palestinian relatives in the West Bank).

They do tend to attend separate schools as they have different home languages, but they're certainly not segregated from public hospitals etc as you earlier implied.

In fact Israeli hospitals do (did) also treat Palestinians despite them not being Israeli citizens - some of those murdered in Kibbutz Be'eri were active in collecting Gazans from the border to take them for medical treatment in Israel.

Where on earth did you get those figures?

And, who decided who was and wasn’t a
’combatant’?

Is the definition of a combatant as loose as that of an anti-semite?

In what way is this called for?

@Hunglikeapolevaulter I think you'll find I've already pointed out the hostages who took Palestinians to hospital!!
If you read the link to Wikipedia further you can see that having no right of return as Palestinian refugee is identified as problematic especially as settlers from anywhere in the world who are Jewish have an automatic right to Israeli citizenship. It essentially means that Palestinians born outside Israel have to be granted citizenship in their own country and aren't considered automatically eligible. Whereas children of Jewish Israeli parents born outside Israel are automatically citizens.
This is not an equal society.

‘Between 2020 and 2022, the average rate of infant mortality among Arabs (5.1 per 1,000 live births) was more than twice as high as the equivalent rate among Jews (1.9). Within Arab society, the infant mortality rate among Muslims (5.3) was considerably higher than the rate among Druze (3.1) and much higher than the rate among Christians (1.9).
Life expectancy in Arab society has continued to rise, thanks to improvements in various health indicators, but there remains a significant gap between Arabs and Jews: Life expectancy for men and women in Arab society are now identical to life expectancy for men and women in Jewish society two decades ago.’

https://en.idi.org.il/arab-society/2023/?chapter=55095

If you read the link to Wikipedia further you can see that having no right of return

Well yes, the idea is that Israel is the Jewish homeland.

It essentially means that Palestinians born outside Israel have to be granted citizenship in their own country

What country do you mean, Israel or Palestine? Your posts are blurring the two somewhat.

@Hunglikeapolevaulter Israel can't just be the Jewish homeland. Palestinians live there too and it's their own country.
They need to be able to have equal rights of return to their own homes and to be entitled to citizenship just as Jewish citizens are. It's a ridiculous state of affairs which can only be compared to South Africa before Mandela.

Yes it is! There was a thread discussing this on a different board where posters thankfully could see it for what it was. A genocide! You only get the genocide deniers on here.