The aftermath

[Auvergne63]

All wars end. I use the term "war" very loosely as I don't view this as a war.
What will happen to the Gazans? How can live in such devastation? How can they deal with so much trauma? Will they ever recover?
Gaza faces a massive reconstruction challenge. Here are key facts and figures | Reuters
The former Israeli prime minister Olmert thinks that Netanyahu has no plan for after the war. He has been a strident critic of his actions.
Ex-Israeli PM makes devastating condemnation of Netanyahu’s war in Gazan | The Independent
Here is a link to his peace proposal in collaboration with Nasser al-Kidwa
Former Israeli PM and former Palestinian foreign minister lay out joint plan to end Israel-Hamas war | CBC News

Do you think you can kill every Hamas and Hezbollah member and more importantly do you think you can bomb their ideology away.

You can kill the leadership, defeat them militarily and then have a country governed by a party that accepts Israel's right to exist and outlaws the teaching of antisemitic rhetoric in schools; while creating prosperity.
That will also involve keeping the Iranian regime and their hateful, insididious ideology out.

Exactly, the idea that you just roll over and give up against an enemy that wishes to destroy you is bizarre. Why are only Israelis expected to do this? You help build a situation where peace is more attractive than war to the next generation. They are right that the ideology is really hard to defeat which is why so much international co-operation is needed, to ensure that we don't give in to appeasement.

Does this involve Israel withdrawing completely from Gaza and the West Bank and making no further attempts to widen its borders into these areas and allowing Palestine complete self governance as an independent state.

https://www.reuters.com/world/middle-east/students-describe-attack-by-settlers-west-bank-elementary-school-2024-09-17/

And you can outlaw teaching anti semitic rhetoric but when school children are literally witnessing their teacher and classmates being attacked by settler no lesson will help change an idealogy.

And the Palestinians were there first!
It is their Land.

The exact borders will be a subject for the negotiations - how would anyone here know? I doubt very much thar 'complete self governance' is an option immediately because there would have to be a process to decide what that is exactly and what mechanism the Palestinian people use to determine it given that Hamas have completely failed to allow them to exercise any sort of democratic rights in recent times. It takes time to build a democratic culture & probably other states will need to be involved to broker the process.Israel isnt going accept anyone whose aim is to destroy Israel.

And the Palestinians were there first!
It is their Land.

See this is the exact message that I don't think is helpful. The Palestinians need to accept the existence of Israel. Having refugee status handed down the generations, for instance, is ridiculous.
It may give Western supporters a warm fluffy feeling chanting "From the river to the sea" but ultimately it's the Palestinians that have been suffering from this lack of acceptance.

How would you feel if your land was being encroached upon and obliterated by the very refugees that were settled there?
This is why so many feel for Palestinians- FIL was in Army over there and had sympathy for Arabs even back then.

how do you get to the point of a more moderate Government by ceasing fire now

Well it would have been far easier 11 months ago to negotiate a better and safer relationship, and to have asked the international community to organise democratic elections for the palestinian people with credible choices of leadership. It was madness to think totally destroying Gaza and killing so many innocent civilians, would solve the issue! But I suspect that was more about revenge.

Much harder to build a safe relationship now unfortunately, the hatred, resentment and trauma will be huge and long lasting. However there will have to be a resolution at some point, with Israel funding most of the rebuilding of Gaza (after all they destroyed it), and maybe the international communtiy can help then with building a Government for the Palestinian people. Needless to say Palestinians will need to be given their own state.

How would you feel if your land was being encroached upon and obliterated by the very refugees that were settled there?
This is why so many feel for Palestinians- FIL was in Army over there and had sympathy for Arabs even back then.

Many Israelis lost their homes and livelihoods in various Middle Eastern and European countries as well before building new lives.
I'm sure I wouldn't feel great but what else is to be done other than acceptance and working towards peace? Starting yet another catastrophic war with Israel and losing everything? How does that help?

However there will have to be a resolution at some point, with Israel funding most of the rebuilding of Gaza (after all they destroyed it)

Or perhaps the parties that started this conflict could pay for it?

After WW2, Germany was rebuilt by the allied, the same allied who destroyed it.
Do you think it shouldn't have been the case?

After WW2, Germany was rebuilt by the allied, the same allied who destroyed it.
Do you think it shouldn't have been the case?

I think this is a different case, and it should ideally be a global investment. As Israel didn't start this round of the conflict, insisting they repay feels punitive to me.

I should have said, first money into the pot should be the assets of senior Hamas members.

Maybe you need to read up a bit more on this - it was a bit more complicated than that.

Absolutely. Hamas as an organisation and individual leaders are extremely wealthy. As is Hezbollah. Both tied to extensive criminality in the region.

I disagree. It is, for me, a question of taking responsibility for your actions.
After all, the USA didn't start WW2 but rebuilt Germany and other European countries with the implantation of the Marshall plan.

Please don't patronise me. Of course it is more complicated than that but I don't have the time or the inclination to write an essay on the ins and outs of the Marshall plan.

After all, the USA didn't start WW2 but rebuilt Germany and other European countries with the implantation of the Marshall plan.

This was an investment in long-term peace and prosperity. I hope that similarly the best way forward can be found for Gaza. Either way I doubt they will be soliciting my opinions.

Cost of rebuilding Gaza upwards of £50 billion - GDP of Iran £413 billion - sorted!

Well you brought it up and expected someone else to go into it! Anyway, it wasn't just the Marshall Plan, that was my point.

This makes no sense. If the USA was not reponsible for starting WW2 who was taking responsibility for whose actions in the implementation of the Marshall Plan?

There around 2 million people who haven't died. The population of Gaza has grown rapidly since after the 1940's. The population hasn't shrunk and isn't a tiny number of people.

Hopefully the war will end soon and a new government for gaza. One that focuses on improving things for its people rather than lobbing missiles. Continuing international aid will rebuild.

Yea and hezbollah and Iran who fund all the terrorists

Why do you assume that's why I brought it up? How do you know what I was thinking? To quote Michael Straczynski "your assumption and the truth dine at totally separate tables.”
There is a link on the Marshall plan. The money to rebuilt came from the USA, that is why it was called the Marshall plan.
The Marshall Plan - Rebuilding Western Europe After WW2 (thoughtco.com)