Offer made to Israel

[mouthpipette]

Lyse Doucet (From our own correspondent, BBC R4, 6/10) reported that last week the Jordanian foreign minister said,

"57 Arab and Muslim countries will, right now, guarantee the security of Israel if Israel ends the occupation and agrees to an independent Palestinian state. "

That's a pretty good offer and I find it interesting that it hasn't been more widely publicised.

57 different states with different agendas is never the place to start if you want to actually achieve something.

Well I think it's a good stating point and shouldn't be just dismissed. I don't see any other exit route on the table.
I don't really know what (realistically) Israel hopes to achieve on its current path? Is it hoping it can bomb its way to peace? Kill every single one of its enemies without creating a whole new generation of enemies?

Can you explain what you think the starting point is? Perhsps you can see something I can't but what is the mechanism being proposed by these 57 states to guarantee Israel's security? What actually is it that you think is on the table?

Are the 57 states offering to militarily force compliance?

Unless they're going to use military force I'm not sure why Israel would stop, since that is what they are doing right now and they still don't have the hostages back.

One of the basic tenets of security is protection of your citizens.

So that would include hostages who've been held for over a year now.

Are these states offering to return them? How? Are they offering to invade and rescue them by force?

Where though? In Israel? Right now the proximate threats to Israel are coming from Gaza, the West Bank, Yemen, Lebanon, distal threat from Iran.

What are the chances of people in the areas that are the sources of threat to Israel accepting a unitary arab army in. Saudis and Emiratis have been fighting the Houthis for ages and haven’t got very far.

I just don’t see how they can do it tbh. It’s not that I’m down on a 2 sate solution, there has to be one for any chance of peace for anyone in that region. I just don’t think that any arab country is in a poison to promise that hezb, hamas or the houthis won’t succeed in attacking Israel or can protect it.

No but they will probably have degraded hamas and hezbollah’s ability to attack them in the near term by the time this is over. If they are really lucky Hezb will be on it’s arse in Lebanon and the majority of Lebanese who don’t like them can further reduce their power or make them defunct.

Agreed.

Israel clearly want Palestine completely gone. They are counting on the bigger powerful Arab countries having too much to lose to start a proper war in the region.

Israel will make itself a complete pariah in the area if not the world. A despotic state.

Which arab countries would actually want to engage in a war with Israel?

Jordan's FM Safadi was asked about the conflict, peace & Jordan's role on channel 4 news tonight & did not mention this 'offer'.

Sorry misread your statement, completely agree.

Given who their neighbours are, Israel is already a regional ‘pariah’ as you phrase it.

There are still a few people who remember why the state of Israel was created. And there are some who understand why it was created. They are usually well educated and intelligent enough to play a part in policy making if not politics.

So I don’t think Israel will become a world pariah just yet.

Please tell us exactly why you think Israel was created.

Israel was created as a homeland for the Jewish people after the horror of the Holocaust. Everyone knows this.

Is that a serious question?

In the last few weeks Tehran, Iran and Lebanon have attacked Israel, plus the Palestinian rocket attacks.

This just about sums it up. It’s a very bleak prospect…

There has to be respect for Israeli territorial integrity at the hear of any negotiation or defensive commitment

When we have groups ideologically wedded to the idea of Israeli destruction then those discussions can't begin. If you remove the actors that won't deviate from this position you have hope.

There has to be respect for Palestinian territorial integrity at the hear of any negotiation or defensive commitment
When we have groups ideologically wedded to the idea of Palestine destruction then those discussions can't begin. If you remove the actors that won't deviate from this position you have hope.

You see, it works both ways.

@GladAllOver

I agree but then it all becomes about borders and security.

In order to ensure a functioning Palestinian state there needs to be that fundamental acceptance of borders and the mutual respect of them. This includes a peace deal where the borders aren't transgressed and hostilities cease.

I keep receiving Facebook feeds with an Israeli map with all the city names renamed in Arabic, how is this helpful? Yes you need an Israeli government that respects Palestine but this can't be done until everyone accepts we can't go back to 1948.

Yes, I agree.
And like it or not, Jewish and Palestinian people DO both have legitimate, historical claim to the area. Ironically, because they both share the same ancestors.

Genetics can bring Jews and Arabs together - JNS.org

Where do you draw the line with history? I guess the Italians could argue they could claim a lot of Europe through reestablishing the Roman Empire.

I think the idea that we can go back to some historical establishment is tantamount to saying Israel as a state should not exist and should never has existed which is exactly the ideology that needs to be dismissed now for a hope for a way forward.

Israel is a Jewish state and it is founded as such.

Absolutely, and I think @SharonEllis makes it clear how many people think. But its also pretty hard to escape the fact that Israel is a Jewish colony forced on the region by Western imperial powers.

I'd question whether displacing any group of people in favour of another from outside is ever going to be a good idea, under any circumstances.

If Israel wants to see an end to the violence against it it absolutely has to recognize the injustices it has passed on to the Palestinians over the last 100 years or more.

I find it incredulous that some can be so myopic not to see that the conflict in the ME didn't start on October 7th, or 2006, or 1967, or even 1948. Just because Israel keeps "winning" doesn't give any moral justification for their actions.

Of course. But Israel continues to build settlements which the UN says are illegal, on Palestinian land. And the same is happening over at the West Bank. Those borders are not being respected.

As for the maps, there is one showing Israel taking the whole region as far west as the Nile.

I see no difference in the rights and claims of the two sides, and I would no doubt be condemned by each as a supporter of the other. I can live with that.