New Hamas video of hostages

[Muthaofcats]

The new Hamas video released today of the female hostages selected as the ones they planned to get pregnant was so sickening and I wish I hadn’t seen it.

however, I am also wondering WHY it has not been more widely picked up and broadcast? I don’t understand the silence from the bleeding left; why don’t they see stuff like this and not just feel desperate and sick about those poor poor girls and their families who must be beyond devastated.

Watching the men in those videos helps to counter balance the idea of Israel as the aggressor. I wish more would see it and reflect or even just place those women of equal value to those in Gaza.

How is the world so perverse right now that this warrants a shrug from so many? Or worse, is viewed as justified !?

Would you like us to start offering our homes to large numbers of Gazan refugees to make things more even?

At the time I posted, I couldn't see it there. Presumably it has updated now
¯(ツ)/¯

It does seem to have been picked up now. Yesterday I could only see it on the Daily Mail (as shared by someone on the FWR board).

I saw one video of the group of girls all hiding in a bomb shelter on the phone to their mothers. Trying to work out what to do. The clip ends as a Hamas man with a gun enters. All of the group were raped, killed or taken hostage. Seeing how young they are and how frightened and knowing their ultimate fate is just harrowing.

I’m so sorry too. It shows Hamas are achieving their objective if Jews feel too frightened to wear their Star of David or have Jewish names. How are we back here? I’m so sorry that your mother survived just so her great grandchildren could go through the same persecution all over again. Have we learned nothing.

The JC recently outlined several instances of antisemitic bias in the BBC coverage of the conflict:

https://www.thejc.com/news/uk/a-fulll-timeline-how-the-bbc-mishandled-coverage-of-israels-war-in-gaza-kso4aj61

Thank you for explaining clearly what you were hoping to convey.

What I was trying to convey is the idea that in the West, we think we know all about fascism: it looks like Hitler, or Netanyahu (both white-looking men in suits); it is supported by corporate greed, which makes us automatically think of the US; these are our default prejudices. The Islamic version embodied by Hamas does not compute with our patronising tendency to see "brown" people as having no wealth, agency, or strategic vision.*

I think this can be true.

Also, there can be a certain fascism where you would not expect it in aspects of liberal left wing politics in the U.K. around anything thought of as ‘correct’ thinking.

Presumably your post was deleted because it used language which meets the threshold of hate speech within the Talk Guidelines. That's hardly evidence of excessive censorship - the threshold is quite high when it comes to Islamophobic terms.

@ChickyBricky thank you for apologising for using that phrase.

This is an BBC article describing the position of these very young female border guards whose job it was to spot anything suspicious hand how they came under attack on Oct 7 while carrying out their work.

For months they had known some sort of attack was being planned but were ignored and left undefended by their own superiors.

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-67958260

Yes, we musn't forget that "Nazi" once meant national socialist party!

Genuine question, is "Islamofascism" necessarily a pejorative term? To me, it conveys the kind of authoritarian regime characterised by e.g. Ayatollah Khomeini, and seemed to be a useful word for describing what I was trying to express. What does it mean to you?

Yes. It's a deeply offensive term used to spread hatred and fear and to contribute to the way Muslims in the UK and around the world have prejudice and violence against us dismissed, minimised, justified and supported. What its use usually means for me is that I'm not safe to interact with the person using it, as those people often follow it up with threats or attempts at violence against me or others like me. So I have little desire to interact with people who use language like that. It isn't used the way you'd like to use it, and it's not a word that you can 'reclaim' or defend without its use placing you in the company of people who would see me, and people like me, ostracised, incarcerated, deported or dead. It's not a 'discuss and debate' kind of word, it's more a 'report and hope you never have to interact with that poster again' kind of word.

@ChickyBricky

From the explanation provided it seems it might be best not to use the word in the future. It should really be enough to just say fascism, I guess! Not sure anyone here would complain too much if you called Ayatollah Khomeini a fascist.

Now if only people would also be careful with using words like "Zionist" properly, that'd be great. People have no problem with that apparently being a "discuss and debate" word, despite protestations from actual Zionists. One rule for us, another rule for everyone else.

My heart goes out to these girls and their loved ones and ALL the victims of this conflict. It's always the vulnerable- children, women, the elderly, the disabled, who suffer most in war and I pray for all of them regardless.
As a survivor of male abuse and violence, I condemn it totally, no matter who the perps are. I would think this could be classed as a war crime, and should be punished accordingly, as should all war crimes. However, we know the atrocities of winning sides tend not to be dealt with justly. Personally, I think the atomic bombs dropped on Japan was a war crime by America but they won, so they never faced justice at the time and it's too late now. We live in a very unjust, cruel world where the powerful have always persecuted the vulnerable and as much as that makes my blood boil, there are no easy answers.
I pray to God those poor girls are rescued asap, words can't describe the horror of what's being done to them!

@Scirocco Noted, I won't use it again. Honestly, I had no idea it had such strong negative connotations. As explained, the reason I used it rather than "fascism" was because of the apparent Western liberal inability to see fascism as anything other than a "white/colonial" issue. This was my contribution to the thread's theme about blindness and censorship from the Left.

@Humdingerydoo That would be marvellous!

Yes I don’t understand how the term ‘genocide’ in relation to Israel is permitted, given that this has not been found (yet) by the ICJ, whilst their right to defend themselves confirmed by the ICJ.

Yet ‘genocide’ is bandied around as though it’s fact, without any consequence to the poster, despite it carrying heavily problematic connotations and implications

Same as Zionist or Zionism. The number of people who don’t realise that there is nothing in and of itself offensive about Zionism. Yet the claim ‘Zionist!’ As an insult is readily accepted. Even by some Jews.

What I find even more disturbing is that the word "genocide" is never used to describe the threat Israel faces, despite that intention having been made abundantly clear in the most horrific ways.

That puts sharply into perspective every single frustration I have ever had with incompetent/dismissive work colleagues. Imagine 😟

Do you have the same sympathy for the Palestinian hostages that have been imprisoned for 10+ years by Israel...a lot of them children?

This video has only surfaced now that Israel and Netanyahu are losing their support internationally.

This video does not in any way justify the genocide that is going on. People would have more sympathy if 40k+ people (most of whom are children) did not die. And the very argument that they are 'human shields' or whatever nonsense people like to justify their deaths can be applied to the Israeli hostages as well....just collateral between two warring states....

As another post said, do you also think the Democratic Republic of North Korea is a democracy?

The Nazis were fascists, not socialists and this current thing about claiming they were socialist is a desperate attempt by actual right wing fascists to pretend "the left is just as bad". Don't fall for it.

The situation in Israel is too serious to play culture wars and try to reduce to left v. Right.

@ToughToffee the video was released by the families of the hostages in particular the girls who were kidnapped, in the hopes it would push the government to do more to bring them back home. And specifically to resume negotiations that had stalled. I see, since then that the Israeli government have said that negotiations are to resume again so hopefully its one step closer to them coming home again and for this dreadful war to end.

If you want to talk about Palestinian prisoners, why not do it on a thread about Palestinian prisoners?

That wasn't my point; it's more that when politics is nutty enough, it's a circle, not a spectrum - both ends meet.

@Humdingerydoo , I think there has been a real problem about finding a definition about what Zionism means exactly on these threads, as even when asked, there does not seem to be any one answer from posters who might know more about it.

Also it is not clear what the different beliefs (are in detail) of people whose only point in common is that they are Jewish and Zionist, as they are completely different otherwise.

I used to think Zionism meant believing what Netanyahu, Ben-Givr and Smotrich, West Bank settlers and somebody (woman) Weiss believes. That it meant effectively that in the end either all the land is for the Jews, or as much as possible should be resettled and removed from Palestinians; and that Palestinians need to be moved into Egypt if possible etc or otherwise scattered and their lands confiscated or fenced in with check points; or killed for ‘security’ reasons.

Then a poster came on to say she was against what is happening to Palestinians, but she would describe herself as a Zionist. I think she meant it in the sense that Israel must be a home for Jewish people, as intended after the WW11. This I can well understand especially knowing how the U.K. and USA were not welcoming to Jews after the war. They made things what they are in a way by providing this alternative in Israel for Jewish people, and a solution must be found as there is no going back now.

Those are very different ideas of Zionism. I think people objecting to Zionism are thinking of the first kind. I know I did but I just steer clear of the word now as I don’t know what it means.