New Hamas video of hostages

[Muthaofcats]

The new Hamas video released today of the female hostages selected as the ones they planned to get pregnant was so sickening and I wish I hadn’t seen it.

however, I am also wondering WHY it has not been more widely picked up and broadcast? I don’t understand the silence from the bleeding left; why don’t they see stuff like this and not just feel desperate and sick about those poor poor girls and their families who must be beyond devastated.

Watching the men in those videos helps to counter balance the idea of Israel as the aggressor. I wish more would see it and reflect or even just place those women of equal value to those in Gaza.

How is the world so perverse right now that this warrants a shrug from so many? Or worse, is viewed as justified !?

Honestly I want hamas Brought to justice for what has been done to Israel, but the destruction of the nation can never be justified.

I understand that things are complicated but children are innocent regardless. Even one with a gun in hand cannot be held responsible for being brain washed. Israel need to let water food and medicine in, in large amounts immediately.

Yes, but can you comment on the connotations? it was ages ago that the Nova kidnappings were discussed here, but unless I've gone mad I thought someone said that the meaning is more nuanced than just "female captive" and that having a captive female confers certain rights.

For example, a quick Google says:
Islam allows women to be taken as war captives, once taken captive they become slaves. Those who are taken as slaves are referred to “those your right hand possess.” Sahih Muslim 1456 explains what can be done with captive women.

Is this true? I don't trust what I read on Reddit, but it does suggest there might be more to the word than just someone you have captured.

Yes, I'd say so. Shame others on here can't bring themselves to acknowledge it.

There was no intention at all to accuse you specifically of anything. You cannot honestly expect me read every single post of yours, I only know what you say to me.

Regardless, protestors, certainly many of them, are wittingly and unwittingly supporting Hamas. That is my view. And some of the signs carried at protest have been disgraceful even implying that the victims of Oct 7 actually deserved it. And in fact I think the OP had a point and it seems to me that the events of that terrible day are being glossed over by too many people. That’s all.

as sending civilian bombers into Israeli hospitals under the guise of receiving medical treatment.
Link to this, please.
Are you talking about the same hospital where the IDF, disguised as medics, shot the paralysed man? Or is it another hospital?

So because Hamas doesn't care and is happy to let their own civilians die Israel shouldn't either? Is this what you are saying?

Israel cannot be irradiated because it is far to powerful I point that out and you acknowlege it and instead say that it is justified because they will carry out another October? Is this correct? It's a question not a accusation.
Israel can chose to follow international law... it can stay within the rules of war to defend itself I am not against that.

OK so I've done a bit more Googling and found this on Quora, but don't have a subscription so can't read the whole thing.

As suspected, Reddit were talking bollocks.

As @Scirocco says, though, the intentions of those idiots is so clear that they could have used the word "ice cream" and we'd all know what they meant! 🤦🏻‍♀️

If I saw a child running around with a rifle my instinct would be to protect the child not use it as reason for killing children. Given the fact that 14,000 children are dead I think the suggestion that some of them could be combatants inappropriate.

@MrsAllsorts if you read through some of the other Middle East threads, you will soon see that Scirocco is one of the most balanced and fair posters on the subject, and often expresses empathy with Israeli victims.
In fact it often occurs to me, while reading through these threads, that if instead of the likes of Hamas and Netanyahu we had people like @Scirocco and @EllaDisenchanted in charge of Gaza and Israel, then we would have had a feasible peace process in place a long time ago.

I think this is how I feel, too. I'm sure some of my posts (like the one earlier in this thread) have been deleted because I've been assumed to be Islamophobic, which is annoying. I've had a lifetime of being totally indifferent to race or religion, and my closest friend at school was Muslim. But what's happened on and since 7 October has made me feel nervous and wary, and ashamed of feeling nervous and wary, and really fucking anxious about the way things are going. On MN at least, it feels as though compassion is entirely one-directional, and that upsets me. It's also distressing that I can't express that upset without upsetting people I don't want to upset. It's beginning to feel like humanity is trapped in some kind of cruel endgame of our own making.

@ChickyBricky In itself, the word doesn't imply anything sexual or to do with pregnancy. It's pretty clear what those 'men' were interested in, having found female captives, though.

IS / ISIS / ISIL used it as a descriptor for sex slaves. Which is disgusting.

As for the concept and history of slavery in Islam, that's a full and controversy-filled thread in itself. In brief: At the time of the Qur'an and ahadith, slavery in the non-Islamic Middle East was widespread and brutal. Islamic law set out standards for treating and liberating slaves, including encouraging people to not have slaves at all. Islam also stated that people should adhere to secular law (unless it compels someone to do something clearly un-Islamic), and international law is clear about slavery, so slavery is not acceptable. Violent misogynists won't let a little thing like actually following the teachings of their claimed faith, get in the way of being violent misogynists though. So, they go "yay, this bit here said how to treat slaves back hundreds of years ago so it must still be fine to have slaves today... oh, and we'll just forget the bits about freeing them, giving them rights, etc".

I'm surprised you didn't use the word "Hasbara" 🤣🤣🤣

Welcome back!

Thanks so much for taking the trouble to share that clear explanation. I think our posts crossed, in the meantime I did a bit more digging and came to the same conclusion. 😊

Thank you, @PoloMum ♥️

There was no intention at all to accuse you specifically of anything. You cannot honestly expect me read every single post of yours, I only know what you say to me.
Sorry but you did
Read your post at 14:39. You clearly implied that Scirocco was a Hamas supporter, which I find utterly disgraceful.
Scirocco has remained, for the last 7 months, measured and composed in her posts. I know she has lost loved ones in Gaza and is grieving.
Have some compassion and humanity. God knows, it's lacking at the moment in the world we live in.
@Scirocco Sorry but could not remain silence in the face of such a denial. I wish people had the courage of their conviction.

I know. That's why I lap it up!

Thank you for your even handed and fair response.
”Violent misogynists won't let a little thing like actually following the teachings of their claimed faith, get in the way of being violent misogynists though.”
We have those kind of people in my religion too .😣

More or less inappropriate than all the posters on this thread minimising or denying what Hamas have done?

All I did was post a video showing a child terrorist to show it's not as straightforward as some people are trying to pretend it is. Nothing about any of this is straightforward.

But before my words get twisted - I don't think the so far almost 8000 dead children were terrorists. I don't think all Palestinians are terrorists, regardless of sex or age. I think Palestinians deserves a whole lot better than their current representatives and I think they deserve a state of their own, one that isn't so heavily controlled by Israel. I just think Hamas is very, very widespread and needs dealing with. I personally wouldn't have done what Israel have done though.

Yes

Why?

So they didn't murder over 1200 people? Rape women? Kidnap children?

You do realise that supporting Hamas is illegal?

@ChickyBricky "What I tend to see is people paying lip service, in passing, to the horror of the atrocities committed by Hamas, all while insisting that Israel's response is disproportionate and that the IDF are "the real terrorists."

They flood thread after thread after thread with trauma-porn images from Gaza, go into gruesome detail about the suffering of dying babies, and copy/paste comments from social media and dubious news outlets without any analysis or comment of their own, as though no one else has access to the internet and they are performing an important public broadcast service. Sometimes I can't help wondering if these are bots working in Hamas's interests, although I suppose most of it is just lazy posters bouncing around in their echo chamber."

This with gold-plated bells on ^

I suspected bots as well, especially with the plethora of posts from Quds a news outlet with links to Hamas.

MN has been asked to shut this stuff down in the interests of good taste but so far hasn't done so.

Yes, maybe I don’t usually follow these threads. And you are right, we need people who want peace actually in charge.